Dragoon Punished at lvl 58 - What needs to be done with Wheeling Thrust

[Hyrist]

Merge WT into F&C and call the buffs "enchanced fang" for back and "enchanced claw" for flank, and make something else out of WT.

As it stand WT is a downgrade for F&C which just doesn't feel right when player are given one mechanic at 56 only to have it altered at 58.

That's patently false on multiple leves.

First you lose nothing. Every time you use Fang and Claw, you have a flank attack. What you get, is the added direction from Wheeling Thurst, which again, while RNG, gives us alternating angles from attack. It is debatable that Rear is more useful than Flank given that it lines up directly with our Chaos Thrust, our only required 3rd hit positional. I'm more annoyed when Fang and Claw procs than Wheeling Thrust.

Second, your mechanics alter with every introduced skill. That's like saying the mechanic of Fang and Claw and Wheeling thrust are both undermined by GK, because it forces you to re-balance the mechanic, or any major introduction really. Impulse Drive changed the way you DPS until you get Life Surge, then it's change again when you get Disembowel, and again when you introduce the directional from Chaos Thrust. If a player has problems adjusting to mechanical and rotational changes at they level, they probably should not be playing RPGs.

Anyways, this is all really pointless griping. Dragoons are not suffering in the least.

[GrizzlyTank]

Second, your mechanics alter with every introduced skill.

Altered by a mechanic that servers no purpose other than making a already established skill tedious.
All other skills mentioned provides some sort of improvement and progress to the job while WT does neither.

[Jonnycbad]

Dragoons had Drainstrike in 1.0

Speed Surge
Level 10
Lancer
Hitting the target inflicts an enfeebling status which grants attacking party members the ability to absorb HP.

This would make for a cool ability for healing over time as a dps but might be too much utility. Still, if it was like 10 seconds, 90sec recast, absorbed 20% of damage dealt it would be like an aoe Blood Bath, but would work on ranged,magic and physical alike, which would be kinda neat.

Or they could give us a selfish ability. Fleet of Foot from 1.0 was a Lancer-only +20% running speed boost, though Ninjas might riot.

[whiskeybravo]

Altered by a mechanic that servers no purpose other than making a already established skill tedious.
All other skills mentioned provides some sort of improvement and progress to the job while WT does neither.

Blood of the dragon - Short CD to boost Jump and SSD damage
Fang and Claw - an introduction to 4th tier combo system and way to extend BotD duration
Wheeling Thrust - full 4th tier combo integration, extends BotD
Geirskogul - CD that partially consumes BotD duration

Looks like progress to me

[Hyrist]

Altered by a mechanic that servers no purpose other than making a already established skill tedious.
All other skills mentioned provides some sort of improvement and progress to the job while WT does neither.

You don't have to play the class. Nobody's forcing you.

Tedious is subjective. And I've already listed the improvement for you: You have an additional angle now to complete the combo from for bonus damage. The trade off? It's random now.

[Jonnycbad]

Blood of the dragon - Short CD to boost Jump and SSD damage
Fang and Claw - an introduction to 4th tier combo system and way to extend BotD duration, flank positional which procs 100% off of Chaos Thrust and Full Thrust
Wheeling Thrust - full 4th tier combo integration, extends BotD duration, rear positional which nerfs the 100% proc of, and now competes with a 50%/50% random proc with Fang&Claw. Not only adds no utility over being level 56, but actually hurts the job by adding additional randomness for no benefit.
Geirskogul - CD that partially consumes BotD duration

Looks like regress to me

FTFY
/charlimit

[Hyrist]

Agian, perspective. The benefit is actually having a Rear-Orientated 4th attack. The random is the trade-off. It's not regress anything unless you're absolutely horrible at playing the class.

[Fynlar]

Again Dragoons are looking at their classes in isolation, forgetting entirely that other classes have similar "dip" periods in their class development and advancement while still netting an overall significant performance gain from 50 to 60 that adds interest to game-play while maintaining (and in some cases rectifying) class balance.

Show me one other ability that any other class gets that adds complexity to the class for no benefit, as well as being an ability that you can't just simply *not use* without taking a performance loss. Otherwise no, I'm not "forgetting" anything.

Tedious is subjective. And I've already listed the improvement for you: You have an additional angle now to complete the combo from for bonus damage. The trade off? It's random now.

Yeah, news flash, that's not actually an improvement unless we can actually use either attack at our own choosing. Without that, all that WT is *is* the trade off.

[Hyrist]

Show me one other ability that any other class gets that adds complexity to the class for no benefit, as well as being an ability that you can't just simply *not use* without taking a performance loss. Otherwise no, I'm not "forgetting" anything.


Yeah, news flash, that's not actually an improvement unless we can actually use either attack at our own choosing. Without that, all that WT is *is* the trade off.

Both subjective arguments. The occasional ease of transfer from Chaos Thrust to Wheeling Thrust, even 50% of the time is a welcome addition. You're just crying because you have to actually be attentive to your class. The entirety of this argument is an on-paper debate when the actual performance of the class is doing very well. You're crying because every single skill you get in the level 50-60 range isn't and absolute winner in your books, which is, at best, petty.

[Aiselia]

Show me one other ability that any other class gets that adds complexity to the class for no benefit

Why? That's not what WT is either.

Here's a benefit: 50% chance after using Chaos Thrust to not have to move to hit the 4th hit positional.
Here's another benefit: You have a chance to not get hosed on your damage if mechanics dictate you can't hit from the side on your fourth hit.

Just because you choose to ignore any benefits doesn't negate them.