Something need to be done about BAD DPS.

[LaylaTsarra]

What a great way to ruin a game designed for casual players !!! do something about bad dps !!!! you people kill me, you think they would actually do that?

Im sure everyone is aware that the vast majority of the money SE makes every month is from CASUAL players. Why on earth would they want to alienate those people?

Exactly. People have a right to suck. They pay just like everybody else. There is no reason to remove them from a duty. The last time I checked that was not one of the reasons listed for removal. This thread is a joke and the jokers in it are something else. Reminds me of A1 when a number of new people were playing for the first time during the first week and this one scholar after a wipe on the first series started to tell people that if their DPS was less than 600 they should leave and went on to tell the entire party what each members dps was. Suffice it to say that scholar was removed from the duty for harassment before starting again.

[Ayuhra]

People have a right to suck. There is no reason to remove them for a duty. The last time I checked that was not one of the reasons listed for removal. This thread is a joke and the jokers in it are something else. Reminds me of A1 when a number of new people were playing for the first time during the first week and this one scholar after a wipe on the first series started to tell people that if their DPS was less than 600 they should leave and went on to tell the entire party what each members dps was. Suffice it to say that scholar was removed from the duty for harassment before starting again.

By that same logic if I went into Alexander and did nothing but Blizzard 1 all day I'd be a massive detriment to the group and well aware of it (because you CANNOT beat even the BLM class quests doing just Blizz 1 into perpetuity). I'd be harassing the group too and could be removed.

What I'm arguing, albeit sloppily, is that bad DPS come in 2 camps:

1. Bad DPS who are genuinely trying but don't know their class yet. They may be new players who are just doing endgame with their class for the first time. They will make mistakes.
2. Bad DPS who are purposefully lazy and just want to be carried through content.

I'm not sure there is an elegant way to punish the latter without also harming the former.

I'm not opposed to parsers for the record, I am commenting more on the idea of nurturing an environment that will cause bad DPS to feel ashamed.

[abzoluut]

Im sure everyone is aware that the vast majority of the money SE makes every month is from CASUAL players. Why on earth would they want to alienate those people?

What does this have to do with parsers? Or does casual player equates bad dps in your world?

[Zumi]

What a great way to ruin a game designed for casual players !!! do something about bad dps !!!! you people kill me, you think they would actually do that?

Im sure everyone is aware that the vast majority of the money SE makes every month is from CASUAL players. Why on earth would they want to alienate those people?

The thing is people can already see if a tank or healer is not doing their job well. But if you play a dps there is no way to tell. Leads me to believe why its the most played role because there is no accountability.

[abzoluut]

Exactly. People have a right to suck. They pay just like everybody else. There is no reason to remove them from a duty. The last time I checked that was not one of the reasons listed for removal.

The thing you conveniently don't mention, is that SE stated there is nothing they can do when a party agrees to kick someone. You can browse the forums for countless threads of people who got kicked, contacted a GM only to get told there is nothing they can do for them.

When people have the right to suck, people should also have the right to know they suck. I for one would choose not to play with them.

It's funny how people like you always have a beautiful DF story about this one guy gone ham about DPS. I do plenty of DF stuff. Once in a while there will be a moron dictating people. 9.9 out of 10 times there is nothing bad going on. People always pick stories to justify and strengthen their argument, it makes me snigger.

[SonTensei]

Casual players are not bads, please stop insulting casuals. Trying to clear a dungeon doesn't make one "hardcore".

the game was designed to be easy and low stress if you want to categorize bads as bad players thats fine, casuals whatever.. point is they arent going to piss off the core subscriber base so people need to get over the bad good thing already. they are here to stay!

[rje]

Honestly, people make a good point that the class quests do jack all to prepare you for actual game content. This is my first MMO and even though I knew nothing about how MMOs worked I've been playing RPG games for years, so my initial inclination was, this is just like a regular RPG just with the added benefit of other ppl. (Something I'm sure is common with many players at first.) With that mindset it actually took someone telling me how the monk rotation really worked because the class quest doesn't tell you jack shit about what the rotation does (as in, how to build good DPS damage.) It's literally 'here's your attacks'. The attack tooltip explains just enough to be confusing and...I'll be honest. I didn't know wtf cooldown meant, what exactly each attack did in terms of damage, AoE, dot, etc...and how would I?! I'd never heard those terms before.

That was my mentality at the time, and it took ppl telling me for me to go 'oh wait I'm doing this wrong?' so while I'm not for parsers because I think ppl would be too quick to be assholes about them, I am DEFINITELY for expanding the class/job quests to actually TEACH YOU SHIT. Hell, there wasn't even a quest for Monk that required you to do your rotation successfully to complete it [at least not that I remember.]

[Teryaani]

Your anecdote is all too common. I've seen it a lot as well, and I can never understand it. Lacking the drive to be better, no matter what it is, is something I'll never get.

Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense. I admit that I'm not as diligent as I should be with CDs like raging strikes (normally only in the first part of the fight unless I'm really on the ball) and the like, but I try to keep enochian up long enough for it to cooldown. I accept that there is an upper limit to how fast/aware I am but I try and I agree that it's weird to not want to get better.

Isn't failing horribly already truly embarrassing?

For some of us, yeah it is. Trust me when I say that when that git kicked the healer, she (said healer) spent the next 10 minutes asking "was it me?". Only after we queued again and with a less geared tank we cleared the content without issue did she calm down.

because the BLM was using ley lines never

I'm so guilty of this. I pop it at the start of every boss fight and then I get a twinge of guilt when I see another BLM in the run use it again.

Stuff on the ground, stuff on the ground everywhere!

"SICKNESS MUST BE PURGED!"

[Terribad]

the game was designed to be easy and low stress if you want to categorize bads as bad players thats fine, casuals whatever.. point is they arent going to piss off the core subscriber base so people need to get over the bad good thing already. they are here to stay!

How is the game designed to be easy and low stress when they have mechanics that most of these "casual"(core base) players can't pass?

Anyway no one is saying make the bad players leave, I think most people here don't care what bads do. They just want a parser so they don't have to deal with bads that refuse to learn.

[Colorful]

There is no reason to remove them from a duty..

You mean other than halt the progress of everyone else there? I could understand this point if we're talking about easy content in DF, but I don't like it. That person is wasting 7 other people's time. If it's through party finder, they're getting the boot.