Dark knight abilities. Uncreative.

[Illya]

Man, people's memories of 2.0 WAR seem to get worse and worse every day. Soon people will remember them as being unable to do 4mans and even leveling to 50 required a fulltime healer for regular mobs.

You only played a PLD in 2.0 so it's understandable that you won't remember anything about what WAR was like in 2.0. That being said, I really only leveled a PLD for a brief span in 2.0 where my group was running 2x PLD for T4.

Insofar as 4-mans were concerned, WAR was definitely inferior to PLD in 2.0. For example being a WAR was stupidly hard when trying to do the old AK speedrun where you sacpulled the entire first hallway to the first boss room and then died left while the party hung a right, the PLD would just pop Hallowed Ground during that run and Sprint. The WAR just died. Stuff that really made me mad when I was a fresh 50 WAR in 2.0's early days because who the hell wanted to be in AK forever back then when trash mobs literally dropped 2 gil per kill and so killing anything besides the bosses was a waste of time?

This was before 2.1 when Inner Beast was altered to give you 6 seconds of 20% damage reduction so trying to WAR MT Titan HM in those early days was pretty bad too. A PLD could go in with full 50 AF and laugh at Mountain Busters. A WAR...not so much. Most WARs got their Titan HM clears in the early 2.0 days as OT doing bad DPS because a full 50 AF WAR had a lot of trouble consistently surviving MBs when IB was kind of a shitty self-heal instead of a straight damage reducer. You can't self-heal yourself when you're dead after all.

[Cooperal]

I think the PLD suffers more from a lack of creative gameplay, but on the other hand, if ground-breaking combat was near the top of our list, why the hell are we even playing this game? If it wasn't or the fact that it's playing so heavily on the FF charm, I might have been gone a long time ago.

We were putting this type of combat under the "done to death" tag around a decade ago. Not that it doesn't work, but in truth it does little more in the combat department than games that even came before WoW. Lineage II is one such game if anyone's going to ask examples.

Unless it's a hybrid shooter or something, nobody is ever trying to make new contributions to MMO combat. It's the universe they're selling you.

[Illya]

I think the PLD suffers more from a lack of creative gameplay, but on the other hand, if ground-breaking combat was near the top of our list, why the hell are we even playing this game? If it wasn't or the fact that it's playing so heavily on the FF charm, I might have been gone a long time ago.

We were putting this type of combat under the "done to death" tag around a decade ago. Not that it doesn't work, but in truth it does little more in the combat department than games that even came before WoW. Lineage II is one such game if anyone's going to ask examples.

Unless it's a hybrid shooter or something, nobody is ever trying to make new contributions to MMO combat. It's the universe they're selling you.

Uh the Koreans have been making action-combat MMOs for awhile now. Tera stands out here as an MMO with an engaging combat system. Too bad Tera also had no endgame besides really unbalanced PvP.

Black Desert is also a game with action combat which is currently in Korean and Japanese open beta. It's F2P too so you can try it yourself if you want.

[Tila]

Uh the Koreans have been making action-combat MMOs for awhile now. Tera stands out here as an MMO with an engaging combat system. Too bad Tera also had no endgame besides really unbalanced PvP.

Black Desert is also a game with action combat which is currently in Korean and Japanese open beta. It's F2P too so you can try it yourself if you want.

Black desert is p2w to the extreme last I checked. None of the action MMO stand up to well. They simlpy dont lend themselves to the MMO formula.

[Kelg]

The only people I see/hear that are having issues with DRK are the ones that aren't tanking material to begin with.
I'm not here to point out all the good things a DRK brings to the table, because frankly I don't think those bashing DRK would either care nor understand what I would say.
I AM here to make the point that 2.0 war had some issues back when ARR released. These issues were truly game breaking and made the class nigh unplayable. DRK is in a similar boat, but no where near as bad. We could use a slight buffer here and there, sure, but most jobs can right now tbh.
I see plenty of DRKs clearing Savage Alexander and I hear very very few of them complain about DRK being underwhelming, not viable in end game raids, or even that DRK needs major buffs. The fact is, they practiced and mastered DRK.
My advice to you would be to stop using jobs you simply don't like, and go play a job that you do like.
(Also, rose-tinted glasses were off at the time of this posting).

I like how the first thing people do when they don't agree with someone on here is try to flex their e-peen with: "Must be because you suck".
No. I have no problems tanking with Dark knight, or tanking in general. I play tank 99% of the time. I'm just saying it's kind of uncreative... I've been looking forward to Dark knight since before it was even announced, and now that it's here, it plays more or less just like PLD, except with tons of oGCD abilities and little party support. It seems like it was just slapped together to do the job, with little thought into how it plays.

[Dererk]

I think one of the main thing that the OP is looking for which DRK had in ffxi but not here is the drain ability's spells where you could drain from mobs to boost your self for a bit.

This could make DRK play very differently.
it would also be nice if we could have debuffs that wouldn't get screwed over everytime there's a monk in the group.

Also SE Da boosted Dark passage gives a blind debuff..... This isn't useful for a over 2k mp use out side of trash mobs I'm sorry low level duty trash mobs.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I wanted a dot+lifetap resource tank which drained its health to increase its defenses or sustain. Which would of been a really cool concept.

Entire Revamped Class Concept: Will Never Happen.

Devouring Slash (level 1)
Delivers an attack with a potency of 50.
Additional Effect: Damage over time with a Potency of 50 for 12s (30s with trait)

Shadowskin (level 2)
Restores 25% of all damage taken into health.
Duration: 20 seconds.
Recast: 80 seconds.
(Does not prevent one shots.)

Hungering Slash (level 4)
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Additional Effect: Increased enmity
Combo Action: Devouring Slash. Combo Potency: 170.
Combo Bonus: Damage over time with potency of 40 for 21s.

Scourge: (level 6)
Spreads a target's Devouring Slash, Hungering Slash, and Engulfing Strike to nearby enemies.
Damage over time effects restore the Dark Knights health: Duration 10 seconds.
Reuse: 10 seconds.
Instant, costs life to use.
(Trait: Can be upgraded to also spread Mana Sieve.)

Engulfing Strike (level 26)
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Additional Effect: Increased enmity
Combo Action: Hungering Slash. Combo Potency: 150.
Combo Bonus: Damage over time with potency of 40 for 30s.

Dread Spikes (level 30)
20% of damage received is reflected back, while lowering damage dealt by 20% and increasing enmity.
Also increases chance to hit by 5%.

Darkside (level 30)
HP and MP is slowly drained and Dread Spikes damage penalty is removed.
Changes the style the Dark Knight uses his weapon to be less defensive.
Effect ends upon reuse or when your mana or health hits 0.
Can only be used under the effects of [Dread Spikes].

Shadow Wall (level 46)
Restores 40% of all damage taken into health.
Duration: 15 seconds.
Recast: 120 seconds.
(Does not prevent one shots.)

Death March (idea)
Increases strength, intelligence by 15%
Converts 15% of all damage dealt into HP.
Range: 30y near the Dark Knight.
Duration: 20 seconds. Killing an enemy refreshes duration to full.
Reuse: 120 seconds.

Devouring Mist (idea)
Constantly pulses unaspected damage around the Dark Knight whilst healing him.
Each target hit by Devouring Mist heals the Dark Knight.
Potency: 75.
Duration: 20 seconds.
Reuse: 40 seconds.
Instant

Mana Sieve (idea)
Deals a small amount of unaspected damage over time to the target.
Restores mana for each tick of damage. If the enemy dies it stops restoring.
Duration: 30s.
Reuse: 60 seconds.
Instant, costs life to use.

Death Touch (idea)
Deals 1000 potency in unaspected damage and heals for amount of damage done.
Reuse: 5 minutes.
Instant.
This is my version of Living Dead.

Pretty much a DOT+Lifetap tank. Very different/Unique.

[BadRNG]

Huge overreaction

I played WAR before PLD in 2.0. Was my first 50, and was first class I did any 50 content on, including MTing Titan HM. I am pretty sure you know this? Maybe you were too busy being overly defensive to remember things correctly. The entire rest of your post was unnecessary, seriously. I never said WAR was good as PLD, I was right here on these forums arguing it was inferior and needed help when people were saying it was just a different playstyle and people were doing it wrong.

My comment was purely on the "truly game breaking and made the class nigh unplayable" part, which is an excessive exaggeration. Nigh unplayable? Seriously? Plenty of players played it and cleared content on them, INCLUDING YOU AND ME IF I RECALL, it was just a lot more work for no good reason. People cleared everything in 2.0 with a WAR MT, even T5 was done with a WAR MT, even if after some gear.

It was just a joke how that every time people bring up WAR now they act like it was the worst thing ever and couldn't do anything. They could do a lot. It was just much much harder on the group, and was a clear balance issue because of it.

[fm_fenrir]

Shadowskin (level 2)
Heals 25% of all damage taken.
Duration: 20 seconds.
Recast: 80 seconds.
(Does not prevent one shots.)

I actually like this as a Living Dead replacement (minus the super-short CD, should be more like 120 seconds). Serves functionally the same purpose (since things meant to one-shot you still do), but you can just light it off and give the healers a break during dps checks.

edit: You could also change the wording to read "heals 25% of incoming damage from most attacks" so it reads similarly to Holmgang or Hallowed Ground.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I actually like this as a Living Dead replacement (minus the super-short CD, should be more like 120 seconds). Serves functionally the same purpose (since things meant to one-shot you still do), but you can just light it off and give the healers a break during dps checks.

edit: You could also change the wording to read "heals 25% of incoming damage from most attacks" so it reads similarly to Holmgang or Hallowed Ground.

Well, the reason Warrior never worked as a lifetap tank was they relied on burst healing skills. The way to make a lifetap tank is simple. Have a LOT of little healing effects constantly going off. Make them skill based so it requires you using the right skills at the right time to make most of those little heals.

That is why Shadowknight worked in Everquest 2.
- Using all of your skills healed you via an aura.
- Using your dots healed you a little.
- Using AOEs properly healed you a little.
- Using certain skills properly healed you a little.
- You gained a little health when you were attacked by using certain skills.
- You had skills that gained you more health on your skills.
- You had a large cooldown high cast nuke which healed you for its damage.
- Some of your attacks put hots on yourself and dots on the enemy which also healed you.

Even though they didn't heal for much, all these little healing skills added up!