NIN -- how does everyone else feel we're doing?

[Layke]

How do other NIN's feel our class is doing right now? Is anyone else "afraid" that SE might be moving NIN towards a more utility based melee as opposed to a straight melee DPS? I won't lie, I like to play big DPS classes. NIN is a great class, and I really enjoy it as a whole, but I'm starting to see the DPS gap between NIN and DRG/MNK widening. We can sit here all day and talk about the utility that a NIN brings to a group, and while you wouldn't be wrong, other classes bring their own form of utility. Personally, I don't feel Goad, Smokescreen, and Shadewalker really bring that much to the table, with Trick Attack being our only true benefit.

Regardless, when NIN first came out it was clear that the class was a pure, fast-paced DPS class. With the onset of HW, it feels like SE is trying to make NIN weaker in the DPS department while giving them a bit more utility, making us a pseudo-melee support. Personally, I'm not to fond of this transition (assuming it's correct), as I rolled this class to do damage. Our AoE is the worst of any DPS class in the game and our ST is behind DRG and MNK, on-par with some of the ranged classes. If our niche isn't AoE and it isn' ST... what is it?

Don't get me wrong, I know NIN isn't bad right now. World first A1S and A3S clears had a NIN in the party; we're clearly viable. But as time goes on and more gear comes out my fear is that our viability will decrease. I'm not the type to play a FotM class. I like NIN and I have no intention of rolling something else, but given enough time I feel I may have to to justify my raid spot.

What are everyone else's thoughts?

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

I didn't play ninja too much in 2.xx but I've been messing with it a lot in 3.0 (i180 right now, mostly use it for dungeons) but from my experience seeing them in my party when I;m tanking, I've always viewed them as a powerful single target dps that happens to have cool utility too. I still view them the same way.

With that said... I wish sneak attack and trick attack didn't share a cooldown because OP skills are really fun

p.s. I'm never sad when I see a ninja in my party

[Mystina]

our curent gear is flooded with skill speed gear, law and alex drops.. imagine getting more gear with det and crit instead and not be acc starved. ninja has great mobility and cd's, it will get beter with time, not the other way around.

[Layke]

our curent gear is flooded with skill speed gear, law and alex drops.. imagine getting more gear with det and crit instead and not be acc starved. ninja has great mobility and cd's, it will get beter with time, not the other way around.

My only concern about getting better gear in terms of optimization is that HW seems to have diluted the value of secondaries. While NIN stat weights haven't been calculated yet, DRG has, and their secondaries plummeted in value, with weapon damage going up. Most of their secondaries are pretty close to one-another. If the same is found for NIN, I don't really see secondaries fixing our problem.

[Maero]

I would expect the same for Nin actually in term of stat weights. Maybe Dervy will have some soon i hope.
In terms of dps and only based from what i have seen (my Nin is only 55 atm) Nin dps is higher then Monk atm.
To me the order and just in my opinion (again i have not levelled my mellee classes to 60 yet) is Drg>Nin>Monk for damage.
Others who have levelled them to 60 and raid would however know better.
But my god that lag is still very much annoying at times.

[Mystina]

there is no problem to fix, we are fine and just slightly behind monks in dps, drgs are preaty sick dps atm tho lol

[Layke]

there is no problem to fix, we are fine and just slightly behind monks in dps, drgs are preaty sick dps atm tho lol

When one class doesn't provide the best, or even second best, single target and has horrible AoE, I wouldn't claim that we're 100% fine. DRG does more ST and AoE than we do by a decent mile. NIN runs out of TP much faster than both DRG and MNK, so on prolonged fights we'll fall behind as well.

People always claim "utility' with NIN, but again, the only true benefit we bring is Trick Attack, which is by no means needed for a kill. Goad is decent, but also not necessary.

[Uppers]

Ninjas are not in a good place right now for savage raiding. Currently, Elysium and Lucretzia do not run nins because their dps output is lower than mnks and far below drgs at around 200 dps. There are a few problems with the class that are only exaggerated with the release of heavensward. First, the potencies of the class is below mnks and drgs which means the overall dps is lower. Second, the effect/utility of skills given to nins during heavensward is a lot less compared to mnks and drgs, both of which have more methods to not only deal greater dps than their 2.0 counterparts but also being able to sustain damage for a longer time due to more tp regeneration. Lastly, mudra lag is terrible right now which is resulting in more players having to use Fuma over Raiton in their rotations to prevent clipping. This results in lower dps due to the potency of Raiton being higher than Fuma.

[Layke]

Ninjas are not in a good place right now for savage raiding. Currently, Elysium and Lucretzia do not run nins because their dps output is lower than mnks and far below drgs at around 200 dps. There are a few problems with the class that are only exaggerated with the release of heavensward. First, the potencies of the class is below mnks and drgs which means the overall dps is lower. Second, the effect/utility of skills given to nins during heavensward is a lot less compared to mnks and drgs, both of which have more methods to not only deal greater dps than their 2.0 counterparts but also being able to sustain damage for a longer time due to more tp regeneration. Lastly, mudra lag is terrible right now which is resulting in more players having to use Fuma over Raiton in their rotations to prevent clipping. This results in lower dps due to the potency of Raiton being higher than Fuma.

While I want the class to be improved, spreading false info doesn't help. There was a NIN in both the world first kills of A1S and A3s. That's a fact.

In regards to your other points, I do agree though. Our HW "utility" skills are pretty garbage, and serve no real function. Our TP also is eaten too quickly, meaning that longer fights will see NIN starved and their DPS dropping. Finally, Mudra lag is a problem, but I don't see how they can fix it unless they change for Mudra's work Ex: instead of casting mudra's back to back and using the ability, make it so that you can use abilities within Mudra casts instead of causing it to break and the bunny to appear. In the process, give each damaging Mudra a tad more potency (20-30) and voila! You've erased Mudra lag and compensated for the decrease in total Mudra' cast.

[Uppers]

Yeah you're right about the savage clears. But there are multiple methods to fix mudra lag that does not involve latency fixes. One method would be lowering the 0.5s cooldown time on the mudra which can already be seen to mitigate the mudra lag through AST buffs. Another method is to automatically cast ninjitsu after a GCD is used when a mudra is prepped.