Are we not the most lackluster job in the game ?

[whiteblade89]

Here's an idea. CHANGE TO WAR OR DRK! If you think PLD sucks, then don't play it. Stop trying to rain on everyone's parade. Oh shit, you got kicked from a raid? Join an FC or make friends. Frankly, there's nothing wrong with PLD. Their strength comes from mitigation. Idk about WAR, but DRK was incredibly squishy compared to PLD. Mitigation is a PLD game. Change your class and get on with your life.

[MaethusXion]

Only want a couple changes myself:

Clemency(or any spell) - allow us to block and (lol)parry through it/them

Divine Veil - shield the PLD also, maybe even let it proc on a self-cast heal(spell or skill like bloodbath)

[Kleys]

PLD is garbage since lv60, especially in savage mode.

It's a fact.

- Extremely low DPS
- still no AoE DPS in dungeons (DRK have a stronger AoE at 50+, why not PLD? "Holy Light!" "Judgment!" or whatever)
- Almost no raid utility (and Halone combo became unused because PLD needs to focus on dealing more damage with others combos)
- RNG Block (WAR have a 100% parry CD)
- TP issues (DRK can still DPS with MP, WAR have infinite TP)
...and yeah maybe he's able to mitigate damage slightly more than others tanks (debatable) and his overall damage taken is lower but who cares; any tank jobs can mitigate damages well enough to survive through everything, and since this game is all about DPS, PLD is currently nowhere near viable considering how overpowered WAR is, and even DRK is still far ahead.

[Giantbane]

PLD is garbage since lv60, especially in savage mode.

It's a fact.

YEA!!!

PLD sucks so bad that all of alex savage's world firsts were using PLD/WAR!!!

I mean, errr, wait a second...

[Teiren]

The only things I think should be changed is:

-Oaths, Shield Bash, Clemency, and Stoneskin should not break weaponskill combos, and Oaths should not be on GCD. This is a really obvious one that has no good excuse for still not being done yet.
-Clemency's cast time should be reduced to 1.5 or 2 seconds.
-Sheltron should block the next Physical Ability and MP gain should be doubled. This is another somewhat obvious one.
-Divine Veil's recast time should be reduced to 120 or 100 seconds. 10% isn't nearly enough of a barrier to warrant a 150 second recast. If the 150 second recast must be kept for some reason, then the barrier should be increased to 20% instead.

That's it. Otherwise, Paladin is completely fine, and I'm not sure what's wrong with the OP.

[Domnall]

DRK has the highest skill cap of the tanks. In fact it plays a little like a DPS with all the off GCD abilities and careful management of Dark Arts. I like how there is no clear choice on what to DA and how it depends on situation.

Same for Carve and Spit.

It's an unforgiving job. Any form of mismanagement leads to mana starvation.

[Phoenicia]

DRK has the highest skill cap of the tanks. In fact it plays a little like a DPS with all the off GCD abilities and careful management of Dark Arts. I like how there is no clear choice on what to DA and how it depends on situation.

Same for Carve and Spit.

It's an unforgiving job. Any form of mismanagement leads to mana starvation.

I disagree with most of what you posted.

1. The amount of off-GCDs does not make a higher skill cap job. BRD and DRG would be the highest skill cap jobs. However SE and the community would disagree and say MNK is the highest skill cap DPS job.

2. The MP management difficulty is exaggerated. Specially with the amount of MP recovery abilities the DRK has vs MP spenders (down to Darkside drain and Dark Arts). You wouldn't starve from "any form of mismanagement" at all. You make it sound that you'd run out of MP if you turn your face for a couple of seconds.

3. The moment to moment decision making is the unique trait of DRK and isn't really that complex. It's down to which skills to DA and 90% of the time you'll just pump up your DPS with DA.

4. DRK isn't that very much different from PLD when it comes to forgiveness. You anticipate big damage = you pop a CD. Which happens instantly and does not conflict with the GCD and last quite long. Forgetting to pop a CD you still have a 20% passive damage mitigation. If anything, WAR is the most unforgiving job where if caught flatfooted you take full damage. Larger HP pool means nothing if you get insta-gibbed. The bread and butter of WAR's mitigation is on GCD, has short duration and needs to be prebuilt and planned. If any tank should complain it's warriors.

[Phoenicia]

Is Paladin a lackluster job? Paladin has not been my cup of tea from the day the game came out. Do not misunderstand me, I love the sword and board theme. I just dislike the simplicity of the job. I played it however when my raid group required me to go PLD. The job has massive advantages which I dedicate this wall of text to.

Oh, I will apologize before hand for the wall of text!

Defense, CDs, Playstyle:
First of all, there is this massive misconception that PLD's mitigation is ahead of the tanks. It really isn't. Outside of Hallowed Ground, PLD does not mitigate more damage than the other tanks.

First of all, Shield Oath = Grit >= Defiance. They have the SAME EXACT effective HP with defiance having a little less effective healing, which is arguably negligible due to the fact over-healing is present in end game and WAR has the best self healing of the three tanks. Maybe warriors should complain more about this, yet they are the tanks that complain the least. /respect warriors.

Yes you have a shield, but it eats at your parry and you end up parrying far less than the other tanks. Also the other tanks have self healing which is significant and covers for whatever little advantage shield block has. Keep in mind damage reduction is not the only form of mitigation. Stoneskin and Galvanize are mitigation though they do not directly reduce damage, instead they add layers of HP.

As a matter of fact, spike mitigation wise, WAR is the tank that can pump its EHP the highest.

What PLD has going for it is the simplicity and straightforwardness of its tanking style. You anticipate damage and you pop a CD. You do not plan GCDs or leverage CD duration and time them hard to get the maximum benefit.
Example: ANY of the PLD's CD will mitigate Flatten + the three flare breaths after while a WAR has to time IB and even then wouldn't mitigate all 4 hits with just one IB but would have to couple Vengeance or Thrill of Battle or use infuriate for a second IB. DRK is in the middle ground with some of its CDs having less effectiveness than PLD but can be coupled with additional short CDs to add mitigation.

PLD is the safest and most forgiving tank of the three due to passive mitigation, long buff durations (Rampart 20s, Bulwark 15s, Sentinel 10s, Hallowed Ground 10s). Also PLD handles magic damage better than how DRK handles physical damage.

PLD also can render some mechanics silly with Hallowed Ground. Good CD rotations include HG in them to completely mitigate busters. While DRK can do the same with Living Dead on some mechanics (I'm looking at you Final Liberation). But LD doesn't even come close to HG which do not need as much healer attention.

DPS, Threat and AoE:
Yes, it kinda sucks that PLD has the least threat generation of the three tanks. It is no where near bad however. DPS will not pull off a good PLD. Not in single target nor in AoE. Yes if a WAR sets their mind on aggro neither DRK nor PLD have a chance (DRK grabs aggro on the first DA Power Slash but loses it soon after and never gets it back, DRK is also gated by its MP upkeep). And DRK will leave PLD in the dust. But does that even matter when DPS can't take hate off PLD?

It also sucks that PLD AoE DPS is near non-existent. Their AoE aggro is competent enough, SMN and BLM can't take aggro off a good PLD in AoE situations and that is what matter. All a PLD has to do is spam Flash and only worry about refilling MP after they close to 50% MP so they don't bottom down.

While PLD brings the least DPS of the three tanks, PLD is the easiest tank to heal. Giving the healers the most space to breath and DPS in return. Tell me you wouldn't use the 10s of damage invulnerability of HG to DPS as a healer! SPECIALLY when HG is planned as it should be. It is easier to plan healing and DPS around PLD's CDs over the other tanks.

PLD has the most useful aggro generating combo. Being the only aggro combo that also applies a debuff. It also happens to be the least potent combo of the three classes at 260 vs 280 BB and 300 PS. However it has the same aggro multiplier (x5) as the other moves. But PLD has one more skill with an aggro multiplier ahead of the other tanks with Shield Swipe. All three tanks have the basic aggro combo, the long range skill (lob/tomahawk/unmend), AoE (flash/OP/Unleash), additional AoE (CoS/SC/AD), but none of the other tanks have an equivalent for Shield Swipe. I think maybe moving Shield Swipe to off-GCD would help a lot I think. Once a PLD has attention, it should not be that much behind tanks. Even in Sword Oath.

Now Sword Oath, people fail to realize that it is the most potent DPS stance in the tanks' arsenal. Adding roughly 11~15% DPS based on which weapon the PLD has. Yes it doesn't directly add to skill damage, but it still adds overall damage. Pre-HW, PLD used to have problems not grabbing aggro while off-tanking even against competent warriors. Now with the addition of new combos that is no longer a problem.

Main tanking in Sword Oath became a new issue. PLD has a "harder" time using all combos in SwO while staying far ahead other DPS and the OT than the other tanks. Resorting to more usage of Rage of Halone and less Royal Authority resulting in less than optimal DPS. But that is not too bad really. PLD forte is not DPS.

Utility:
Let's be honest here, NONE of the other tanks comes close to the amount of utility PLD has.

Divine Veil Useful for raid wide AoE. Though a long CD.
Stoneskin, though situational, has great uses. Remember in T9 where you SS'd yourself whenever the boss jumped? You can Stoneskin low health party members. I saved many party members that had weakness in T9/13 before AoE when the healers were too busy preparing for raid wide healing. This ability sees way more use as OT.
Clemency, also situational, can relief stress off healers and has uses in situations like in A2 or A4 (when you get pulled out and you don't have a healer). This ability sees way more use as OT/
Cover is awesome. It has had its uses since early 2.0. Examples:
- Castrum Miridianum, the adds ignored aggro, you could cover whoever has the adds.
- If MT dies in T9 during golem phases, you can cover the healer with boss aggro and save a wipe.
- T13 you can cover MT and pop HG to fully mitigate Flatten + Flare Breaths.
- Titan Extreme, cover MT and they you take the vulnerability stack instead of them extending the amount of time where you don't need a swap.
Hallowed Ground: Yes, this deserves a mention here. As mentioned before, it renders some mechanics silly and easy. Coupled with cover you can give the other tank (and healers) a moment of respite. It also made tanking ridiculous amount of adds or 2 dreads possible in T4 when WAR couldn't. Also it is the I-won't-die-button that requires the least amount of healing.

TL;DR
PLD is fine as it is. While simple is not necessarily effective. PLD is still the most safe, simple and effective tank to use. Yes it does the least DPS but it allows the raid to do more DPS. A buff to its threat generation would be nice, but it is NOT necessary by any means.
If a party kicks/refuses you because you're a PLD, they probably suck and want to blame their lack of skill (DPS) on the job the tank plays. Are you sure you want to be with them?

Again sorry for the long wall of text.

[Valkyrie-Amber]

if a class lacks dps like in this instance people run with 2 tanks so why take the weaker pld over a drk and war who could save like a min each alex sav farm run. why carry low dps pld?

[Phoenicia]

if a class lacks dps like in this instance people run with 2 tanks so why take the weaker pld over a drk and war who could save like a min each alex sav farm run. why carry low dps pld?

..../sigh

Do you even read? Posting these 2 lines after that wall of text says much imo. lol