The one consistent critic on Heavensward is "too much like ARR"? srsly?

[Ayanno]

Look at WoW. They tried to be "innovative" and most of their playerbase left. Innovation is a HUGE risk for an MMO. SE has already done things differently and been successful. There's no need for huge innovation that might alienate a lot of the playerbase.

Being innovative isn't the same thing as trying to reinvent the wheel, which is what WoW did. SE themselves have shown in the past they are capable of giving their players a variety of content from one expansion to another. The issue is....they didn't even try with Heavensward. They just slapped a new coat of paint on 2.0, gave us wings and that was about it.

[Reinha]

Completely new mechanics in Heavensward:

-flying, aether currents
-new jobs
-fc crafting / airship
-temple leves
-story mode 8 man raid (and it's loot system?)
-unsynched dungeons, undersized synched dungeons
-crafting specializations

You may not like the added stuff or you might have already done it or gotten used to it but that doesn't mean it's not there. They will also add more new kinds of gameplay in future patches (which are only 3 months apart). I think the claim that SE isn't innovating is false. I think some people complaining fail to specify that they want end game to change or have more variety. The game as whole just got plenty of new things people can try out. Even if some new kinds of end game are added, the old things are not going away. So if you hate that hard raids give the best gear or that tomestones exist and are awarded for doing roulettes, you either need to accept it or find another game to play.

[Shurrikhan]

Completely new mechanics in Heavensward:

-flying, aether currents
-new jobs
-fc crafting / airship
-temple leves
-story mode 8 man raid (and it's loot system?)
-unsynched dungeons, undersized synched dungeons
-crafting specializations

You may not like the added stuff or you might have already done it or gotten used to it but that doesn't mean it's not there. They will also add more new kinds of gameplay in future patches (which are only 3 months apart). I think the claim that SE isn't innovating is false. I think some people complaining fail to specify that they want end game to change or have more variety. The game as whole just got plenty of new things people can try out. Even if some new kinds of end game are added, the old things are not going away. So if you hate that hard raids give the best gear or that tomestones exist and are awarded for doing roulettes, you either need to accept it or find another game to play.

While I'll generally agree, here's another way this can be read to one who really hated certain parts of ARR.

- Flying : more travel streamlining OR further chores to be done before being capable of joining a FATE party, with which one will again inevitably grind levels at some point
- New Jobs : mostly carbon copies of old ones with only a few new concepts actually thrown into the mix
- FC crafting / airship : The final product just feels like Ventures
- Temple Leves : wasteful for anyone who doesn't need the money. Also, leves? Still??
- Alexander : No real additions to raid gameplay. Can't fault the tokens, though - aids job freedom for a short time.
- unsynced dungeons : all the better for getting glamors... all this, for glamors... >.>
- crafting specializations : because the massive master craft grind and desynths weren't doing this before??

All I'm saying is I can see why these seem basically inconsequential or outright non-existent additions to some. A lot of people were hoping for growth in the development model, not just growth in the model that was already developed.

[Laerune]

They dont need to change stuff, but instead add new features. Imagine if this expansion was released with what we current have and:

1. Removed GC restriction for PvP.

2. Added a defend/capture keep pvp map, like GW2 or ESO, there is no timer or countdown, people can drop and leave the map whenever they want, but the ones that stay get longer perks for defending/attacking the keeps. The maps should be the same size or bigger then the current HW maps. Imagine Hinterlands as a PvP zone. This will also take care of the (we want Open-PvP) requests. People enter via the duty finder, but there is no timer on it, so they can stay there how long they want.

3. A feature where DoL/DoH/DoW/DoM have to come toghter and work toghter. Something like hamlet, where gatherers need to hunt for supply, the crafters build stuff like sieges (this could also be added to pvp where crafters and gatherers can help build a better keep or make siege weapons for attacking other keeps), the fighters will attack and defend the other players and npc's.

If HW was released with these 3 features, no critic would have the right to complain that it is the same, but as it is right now. I am playing ARR again with new skills and dungeons.

[Nadirah]

I'm already not a fan of crafting interdependency and you want *more*?

No thanks.

[BubblyBoar]

People crying for "innovation" are being silly as it's been shown time and time again that innovating usually results in failure. And some of the suggestions given for "innovation" isn't really that at all. It's just stuff a person liked from another game or MMO that they want transplanted into this one. And doing so is not some small thing. 2.0 worked and people enjoyed it. The same goes for 3.0. If you don't like it, unsub, because money speaks more than the 10s of people QQing on the forums.

[Themis]

Being innovative isn't the same thing as trying to reinvent the wheel, which is what WoW did. SE themselves have shown in the past they are capable of giving their players a variety of content from one expansion to another. The issue is....they didn't even try with Heavensward. They just slapped a new coat of paint on 2.0, gave us wings and that was about it.

Or they could just be holding onto that kind of change and easing it into the game rather than throwing it in suddenly. Having a strong core foundation is never a bad thing, and it's easier to build on that than one which is frail and unknown (especially if the reason for that is "just because").

I recall Live Letters and interviews which have mentioned that, from Heavensward onwards, they can start improve and innovate and add their own contributions to the MMO formula. But it's not something that would happen instantly.

I'd much rather any changes be planned and carefully thought out. I've continued to play this game because I enjoy how it is. And that's the same for most people, I'd bet. If it suddenly changed into something quite different, it might just cause those players to stop supporting the game.

[Ayanno]

Completely new mechanics in Heavensward:

-flying, aether currents
-new jobs
-fc crafting / airship
-temple leves
-story mode 8 man raid (and it's loot system?)
-unsynched dungeons, undersized synched dungeons
-crafting specializations

Completely new? Hmmm, let's see:

#1 -Flying is new, yes. Aether currents? No, same as any other "find location, click on it, done" quest.

#2 -New jobs/classes/areas/spells and abilities are standard for any expansion ever. Also, while I love playing all 3 of them, there abilities are, for the most part, copy/pasted. Just different names/animations. Rampart =/= Shadowskin. Rage of Halone =/= Power Slash(PLD and DRK obtain these abilities at the same levels, to boot)

#3 -I guess it's new? I mean, the only thing I've done with this is...enter an FC's workshop, saw a 10 secondish CS.....and was done. Can't say much more on this.

#4 -Same thing as before, except now you can spend 10 leves at once, instead of in a row. Yay?

#5 -Story mode raid? Huh. Well, yes and no. Yes, it is a raid meant for those who just wanted to see the story, so that's new. I don't know if I can call it a raid though. I mean, it's not much harder, if at all, then CT/ST/WoD. A wash, I guess.

#6 -This is, also a kinda new thing. Yes, we couldn't do it before. However, this is more a QoL change for old content then anything else. A welcome change, but a poor bullet point for HW's feature list.

#7 -I'm not even going to comment on the current state of crafting/gathering SE has introduced. Not touching that one.

There really wasn't anything of note that was "new" in Heavesward. New zones, jobs, and spells/abilities are required for an expansion. You simply cannot count that. They must add these things, or it'd be damn near impossible to get anyone to spend money on it, let alone the price of the CE's.

Everything we have received thus far is simply "A Real Reborn: Hard Mode". By this I mean.....Amdapor Keep: Hard, WP: Hard, Mythflox: Har......you see what I mean? We've gotten the same tomestones before, just higher level/item level....but now with a new name/color! We've hade one relevant raid this entire games existence, since 2.0 launched

Patch 2.3 added hunts. A week later, SE tossed a hotfix out that increased the HP of the mobs in attempt(lol...)to stem the zerg. That failed, so a month later they loered seal totals, and made it so you could upgrade Tomestone gear from ST instead. Fast forward to 3.0 and Hunts is....right back to what it was during 2.3? ....wait what?

Crafting/gathering is a mess right now. I'm not even a crafter and I can see that.

2 dungeons? for 3-6 months to grind tomes? Really? Also.....on the tomestone gear.....why the bloody hell is the job specific gear on the weekly cap esoterics instead of the uncapped law? Oh, by the by: Philosophy =/= Law, Mythology =/= Esoterics, all they way to job specific gear. Copy, meet paste.

All of that said, I am still finding things to do that entertains me in game. However.....I have done a grand total of....2 dungeons since esoterics were added....and maybe 1-2 Alex normal runs. I'm not tired of grinding, this is an MMORPG, comes with the territory and I spend a decade grinding things on XI. The grind isn't the problem. The problem is it's the same damn grind for nearly two full years now. In every aspect that matters, it's the exact same thing.

I love this game, I truly do. As stated, I played XI for a decade....and I left XI for this game. I want this to last the decade Yoshi said(some where, don't quote me on that quote, lol) he wanted it to. I want, when SE's next MMO after this, in whatever form it may be in, I want to switch to that one. But.....I'll tell you this: If SE does in 4.0 what they've done thus far with Heavensward.....the game won't last 6 months after 4.0's launch. There's no way it could.

[silentwindfr]

Completely new mechanics in Heavensward:

-flying, aether currents
-new jobs
-fc crafting / airship
-temple leves
-story mode 8 man raid (and it's loot system?)
-unsynched dungeons, undersized synched dungeons
-crafting specializations

You may not like the added stuff or you might have already done it or gotten used to it but that doesn't mean it's not there. They will also add more new kinds of gameplay in future patches (which are only 3 months apart). I think the claim that SE isn't innovating is false. I think some people complaining fail to specify that they want end game to change or have more variety. The game as whole just got plenty of new things people can try out. Even if some new kinds of end game are added, the old things are not going away. So if you hate that hard raids give the best gear or that tomestones exist and are awarded for doing roulettes, you either need to accept it or find another game to play.

1) Flying is nothing new in mmorpg, it's quite old as feature, i don't know when it was done first, but Anarchy online (my first mmorpg) was already doing flying... plus do it did bring something to the game? outside a few area where it's usefull.... for move around and that it, instead to bring new experience from it it was barely a change of what we do.

2) expansion, like said by other than me, is means to bring new area, new jobs. especially into a game like Final Fantasy, where you have a number of jobs possible quite insane.

3) for doing it, i will be blunt it's bad, soo far you gather all the component for craft the part your want and you gather you 4 member and drop all the item and tada! it's done. the part to gather 4 people was push on us for remember us it's FC craft... but clearly was not needed.
the FC airship is the only reason i still do crafting, seriously, but it's soo much random...

4)temple leves, seriously don't start me on this... the reward don't even worth the loose of 10 authorization. i don't see what the purpose of this... leves system is the one that need the more an upgrade and this one was not the one needed. actually it's barely at the level of the guild leves we had in the V1.... seriously. i dunno why they hate soo much this system when is the one with soo much potential. and this potential is wasted because they do shit with it.

5) story mode dungeon, ok one more raid, the loot system is.... seriously... how many different token do we have? and not even into the quest item bag, no into our bag! if you do alexander NM and savage how many space will be lost over this?

6)QoL change and mostly thing that was missing from the start, the capacity to enter a dungeon with less people was a huge miss.

7) crafting specialization, i will be rude, this is the worst of this expansion... this shit try to change the game core mechanic for what reason? the core mechanic of the game is 1 character can do everything! it was not what was needed for save crafting.... the trouble is from the start they take the problem in the wrong sense... instead to give a role and a goal to the crafter they have make everything soo freaking hard to do... that people was forced to do omnicrafting... it's not a specialization that will change this... until they understand that what they do for years now is shit... craft will remain a huge mess!

and i feel you have miss the point, what you talk is feature, what people talk is a format.

for make simple, the game is repeating the same format that we have for years. patch content is the same for long. add secondary activity that have barely impact on the game is not what we want... people want to get more than 2-3 dungeon + 1 raid per patch... they want more activity and more important REPLAYABILITY

[Ayanno]

Or they could just be holding onto that kind of change and easing it into the game rather than throwing it in suddenly. Having a strong core foundation is never a bad thing, and it's easier to build on that than one which is frail and unknown (especially if the reason for that is "just because").

I recall Live Letters and interviews which have mentioned that, from Heavensward onwards, they can start improve and innovate and add their own contributions to the MMO formula. But it's not something that would happen instantly.

I'd much rather any changes be planned and carefully thought out. I've continued to play this game because I enjoy how it is. And that's the same for most people, I'd bet. If it suddenly changed into something quite different, it might just cause those players to stop supporting the game.

While I agree with this, SE needs to show something this year that's actually new. Something. Anything. Maybe the new 24 man thing will be that something new. I truly hope so, as I do love wasting my free time in Eorzea.