Change for Steel Cyclone?

[Freyyy]

yes, you are right that it is indeed a great skill. however, whether or not if Parry is actually worth it i think is a matter of opinion

No, it's not. 10% more parry rate is ridiculously low, it's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. Keeping your wrath stacks for that is a big big waste. You'll never need this 10% more parry rate to survive in an AoE situation (and you'll most likely not even parry that much more by keeping it honestly). However, blowing your stacks while under Berserk + Bloodbath to do a SC will grant you pretty high self-heal which will reliably help out your healer(s). There is no matter of opinion on that, wrath stacks are made to be spent, not kept.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

No, it's not. 10% more parry rate is ridiculously low, it's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. Keeping your wrath stacks for that is a big big waste. You'll never need this 10% more parry rate to survive in an AoE situation (and you'll most likely not even parry that much more by keeping it honestly). However, blowing your stacks while under Berserk + Bloodbath to do a SC will grant you pretty high self-heal which will reliably help out your healer(s). There is no matter of opinion on that, wrath stacks are made to be spent, not kept.

yes, Steel Cyclone is an awesome skill. yes, you can get an awesome heal return on it. as far as healing goes, this isn't something you can do on every encounter throughout an instance. the most practical use for Steel Cyclone is enmity generation. however, sense Wrath now increases Parry rates, it just isnt worth using the Wrath for what little bit of extra Enmity it will generate.

the heal is a one-off, a Parry can made an infinite amount of times. i see Parries quite often. i find Parry to be a sound investment. again, it is all a matter of opinion. you don't like Parry? that is fine, others do.

does it necessarily need to be changed? no, and i never implied so. the skill is great, just not worth trading Parry for Enmity. i don't think it would be so bad to at least see the skill receive a higher Enmity multiplier. it was just an idea. either way, it is what is. meh.

[Freyyy]

snip

That's the opinion of someone who hasn't done any tests with and without parry and never looked at the maths. Also, SC is not only an enmity generator, it's also DAMAGE. Like, high AoE and FREE damage. Remember that it's a GCD with no TP cost. For AoE, it's like freaking OP.

Parry rate in this game is unreliable shit. Damage + self-healing is actually always effective and doing something for you and your team.

[Phoenicia]

the heal is a one-off, a Parry can made an infinite amount of times. i see Parries quite often. i find Parry to be a sound investment. again, it is all a matter of opinion. you don't like Parry? that is fine, others do.

So deliberately prolonging a fight just so you can parry once or twice more is a sound investment. Who knew? /endsarcasm

Blowing Steel Cyclone to end the fight faster IS THE MOST SOUND INVESTMENT you can make in any AoE situation. Dead mobs do 100% less damage than living ones. You underestimate 200 potency that IGNORES the defiance penalty. You can't rely on parry for ANYTHING. And as others have stated, 10% parry chance is a chance to reduce overall damage by 2%. 2% damage reduction is hardly worth it. If you're worried about the unreliable 2% damage mitigation, pop Foresight, that's a RELIABLE 7% mitigation.

Another reason parry is unreliable is the fact parry mitigation varies based on what attacks you actually parry. Let us assume you actually parry the proper rate (Assuming 10% parry from gear and 10% from wrath totaling 20% of all attacks) If you're lucky enough to parry every tank buster the damage mitigated by parry will be skewed way higher than its actual rate. On the other hand, if you do not parry ANY of the tank busters, your mitigation will be skewed way below the 2% total mitigation. From this alone, you can see how unreliable parry is.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

damage... right, because Steel Cyclone actually inflicts anything more then 1% damage on normal enemy in an instance. it is powerful enough on enemies in the world, but the damage isn't even noticeable in an instance. and yes it can be used to get a good HP return, but you need buffs for this. however, using it for a HP return is situational. and, if it can be helped, a good tank obviously isn't going to leave reducing a tank buster to chance.

again, the most practical use for Steel Cyclone is enmity generation.



anyhow, i wasn't stressing any importance on the matter. i never meant for it to sound like it is something that is a must-have. it was just an idea. people don't like it, that is okay. either way, i appreciate all the advice the people who weren't trying to be rude has contributed here. thank you very much.

[Freyyy]

damage... right, because Steel Cyclone actually inflicts anything more then 1% damage on normal enemy in an instance. it is powerful enough on enemies in the world, but the damage isn't even noticeable in an instance.

You're very wrong on this. WAR's AoE damage is very very noticeable in dungeons and can often be on par with non-caster DPS.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

You're very wrong on this. WAR's AoE damage is very very noticeable in dungeons and can often be on par with non-caster DPS.

yeah. as a WAR i find myself able to burst down, depending on the instance, around 15~25% HP from a large mob. however, using Steel Cyclone all by itself just because of its properties isn't going to contribute anything to the over-all damage during the encounter. it is like only 1~2% damage to HP.

[Phoenicia]

yeah. as a WAR i find myself able to burst down, depending on the instance, around 15~25% HP from a large mob. however, using Steel Cyclone all by itself just because of its properties isn't going to contribute anything to the over-all damage during the encounter. it is like only 1~2% damage to HP.

You are really deluded if you think 1.5k is "only 1~2%" of a mob's HP. You're assuming trash mobs have 100k HP each? They have at most 30k and pumping a Steel Cyclone will remove at least something between 3~7% depending on crits/zerk.

[SpookyGhost]

however, sense Wrath now increases Parry rates, it just isnt worth using the Wrath for what little bit of extra Enmity it will generate.

Let's imagine Parry is actually worth something, and for some reason you value those 5 stacks of Wrath for it.

The quicker you get massive enmity on the pack you are fighting, the quicker you can:

1. Apply Storm's Path to one or multiple targets (more valuable than Parry, fyi)
2. Apply Storm's Eye to one or multiple targets
3. Regain those stacks while also gaining the enmity/doing damage from Steel Cyclone (SC ignores Defiance's damage reduction and is high potency)

Also, if you have 5 stacks and Infuriate up you can SC -> Infuriate and keep your extra parry chance (this is what you used to do in 2.0 when your healing increase was tied to Wrath stacks). I heartily recommend not sitting on 5 stacks of Wrath as, in the least, you could be using them on IB or Unchained, both of which are fundamentally sounder investments than the increased parry rate.