Change for Steel Cyclone?

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

i'm not under-estimating the damage output of a WAR. however, i have specifically asked groups on a few occasions through Expert Roulette to allow me to see the damage of Steel Cyclone. the result is pretty much the same as at the testing dummy. it inflicts roughly 1~2% damage to the HP. it does around 863 (sometimes around 950 with the party STR buff) damage, with my current gear. (AIL155)

when in a level 60 dungeon i Parry roughly 1/3 of all attacks throughout the dungeon. with no stacks of Wrath applied the amount of attacks i Parry is noticeably less, roughly 1/5 as compared to 1/3. and in level 50 dungeons i Parry roughly almost 1/2 of all attacks, without the Wrath it is around 1/4.

all-in-all, when using Steel Cyclone all by itself, the most practical use is Enmity. which simply isn't worth trading a Parry buff for. again, i am not and have never been discounting any other uses for the skill. Enmity is easy enough to generate without the use of Steel Cyclone. it just isn't worth trading Parry for a tiny bit of Enmity.


either way, the skill has plenty use as is. and again, i never considered it a bad skill to begin with. it was just a concern with trading Parry to generate what is a rather small amount of Enmity.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

I don't know where to begin.... I'll try.

Did you actually parse your parry rate? There is NO WAY IN HELL you can parry more than 20% (1/5) with current gear. 1/4? 1/3? even 1/2? Dude, I'm sorry to say this, you are plainly lying! Or you are trying to make fools of the tank community.

Where are your numbers coming from? If your gear is so shite that your SC does half of what it should (ilv155), you won't parry more than the ilv190 tanks (15~17%.)

My WAR is ilv178 I think, I have a 160 weapon and my SC does 1300 without Berserk! Mobs in dungeons do not have 100k HP, they have more like 50k. 1.5k is 3%. 3% to EVERY mob from ONE skill is VERY significant.

Let's ignore the damage factor, Steel Cyclone is the single highest AoE enmity generating skill in the entire game! At nearly 800 potency, and it costs 0 TP! Using SC means you need less Overpowers and you can refresh your Maim buff and rebuild your Wrath.

It is NEVER keeping tiny bit of parry over Steel Cyclone or Unchained! If you want to parry so hard, use Raw Intuition, you WILL parry 100% of the time and Wrath + parry stat will be useless.

If you are so worried about the damage you take, and since you seem to magically parry 1/5 of the time anyways, USE your stacks on Inner Beast. IB has 30~33% uptime if you use it as soon as it charges. You will be GUARANTEED reduce damage by 20%, 30% of the time! You still parry while IB is up!

I personally don't even know why you wanna stay in Defiance after building enough threat (1 Steel Cyclone and 1~2 Overpowers). Pop a defensive CD and switch to Deliverance and literally "Decimate" those mobs.

TL;DR: Don't be that guy, don't hold on to your wrath for parry. But if you want to be that guy, then fine, it's your choice to be bad.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

i have spent about the last 3 weeks watching closely the amount of attacks that i Parry throughout both Lv50 and Lv60 dungeons. in lv60 dungeons Parry occurs roughly 1/3 of the time, without Wrath it occurs roughly 1/5 of the time. and in Lv50 dungeons Parry occurs roughly 1/2 of the time, without Wrath roughly 1/4 of the time. i dunno, maybe i am just super lucky every run of a dungeon. i also can't use those tools on the PS4

Steel Cyclone just doesn't even seem to be generating enough Enmity for me. at first i contributed this due to the fact the majority of DPS people out-gear me. but even when i am in a group with DPS that are on equal footing in gear, or even less... using Steel Cyclone simply doesn't do anything to their Enmity. i look at the party list and see their bar not move down in the slightest. even Flash has been showing me more Enmity gain on the party list.

i can go through a lv50 dungeon in only IL100gear + IL100weapon. even with DPS players out-gearing me, Steel Cyclone makes a good impact on Enmity there. how come it doesn't seem to make an impact at all on Enmity generation through a lv60? what am i doing wrong?

and yes, Unchained and Inner Beast are good skills to use your Wrath on. i use them all the time. i use Unchained + Berserk on boss encounters to get enough Enmity to allow me to switch to Deliverance. however, i usually only use Inner Beast when i know a heavy hit is coming.

[Kuwagami]

in Lv50 dungeons Parry occurs roughly 1/2 of the time, without Wrath roughly 1/4 of the time.

I would like to know how you can conclude anything from "data" showing that a +10% parry rate buff gives a +25% parry rate in practice.

i can go through a lv50 dungeon in only IL100gear + IL100weapon. even with DPS players out-gearing me, Steel Cyclone makes a good impact on Enmity there. how come it doesn't seem to make an impact at all on Enmity generation through a lv60? what am i doing wrong?

you're not considering the huge difference there is in stats in a +10 ilvl difference between i100 and i150

You can tank easily any i130 while in i100. You'll have troubles tanking i190 if you're in i160.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

So you're saying that based on uneducated guess, you "feel" you parry half the time?

In full ilv 130 PARRY build gear on WAR in 2.5, when level 50 was the cap, my parry rate capped at 26%. That was its "best". That's your 1/4.

Now that the cap is 60, gear is basically reset. Stats have less effect per point. There is no way in hell you can parry anywhere close to 20%.

Since you do not have the tools to see the exact numbers, I really suggest you listen to those who have them. Parry as a stat is crap. Stacking parry on your gear for the sake of parrying is idiocy. Saving wrath for the 10% parry chance is blasphemy.

Steel Cyclone is 800 potency enmity. Flash is 600, Overpower is 600. Steel Cyclone and Overpower benefit from Maim while Flash doesn't. How is Flash better than Steel Cyclone? Party list doesn't show you numbers, it shows a small bar filling up. Again, since you do not have the tools to see the exact numbers, listen to those who have them.

Berserked, Steel Cyclone can easily do 2~3k damage. That would be ~7% of mobs' HP.

All that said, if you still choose to trust your "feels" instead of solid numbers, then you just choose to be bad. I am telling you, don't be that guy.

[MythToken]

I think if you like parry so much that you wouldn't drop your rate by 10% for a few seconds, then you should just go ahead and stack all the parry you can.

Go all in, and make a parry warrior. There is no one stopping you. Play the game how you want.

[MythToken]

Again I welcome you to play the game how you want.
But there is a lot of data out there showing that you are wrong about steel cyclone in terms of enemity generation.

These are a lot of reasons why Steel Cyclone is better than flash in terms of damage and aggro generation. Flash is still useful.

However your original post was about parry loss vs Steel Cyclone and spending the stacks, so im not sure why the argument is now changing over to the validity of Flash vs Steel Cyclone.

Perhaps because everyone in this thread has basically told you that not using your wrath stacks for something including steel cyclone is most definitely not worth 10% bonus to parry rate.

Again play the game how you want, you are not wrong.
But to suggest Steel cyclone is not more aggro than flash, or that 10% bonus to parry is not worth losing is misguiding to a lot of other tanks, and should definitely not be touted as optimal play.

That being said, I would love to see them add a bleed effect. I think that would work really well with Warrior.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

i don't know, but i'm not trying to misguide anyone here. and am sorry if anything i say can be misleading. i merely speak about my own personal experiences and what i actually see on the screen.

and as far as spending Wrath goes... i feel whether or not is situational, and still believe Parry to be useful.


meh :/

[Misha_Tameshigiri]

You may appear to parry frequently when you are being attacked by multiple enemies, but considering the sheer volume of attacks that are coming in, your parry rate is not necessarily that high.
Let's assume that you are stacking as much parry as you can and have a parry rate of 15%.
You pull 4 trash mobs.
4 auto attacks come in.
You parry none of them.
2.5 seconds later, 4 more auto attacks come in.
You parry one of those.
Now, to you, it appears like you have a 50% parry rate.
But the truth is your parry rate is ~15%.
In regards to the small parry bonus from 5 Wrath stacks:
While keeping that small 10% parry bonus from 5 Wrath stacks may seem nice, it comes out to 2% damage mitigated on average, and only versus physical attacks. (.1 parry boost * .2 parry mitigation)
Using Inner Beast or any of your other moves to gain enmity and/or deal damage is a more efficient use of your Wrath stacks, considering how damage and/or guaranteed mitigation is always effective even if the target(s) are magic types.