What's the point of being elite at your job?

[Bishop81]

You realize that's my point, right? That it's neither side's place to tell the other what "fun" is.

Basically, I guess I'm just bugged because, as another person posted, this topic could've lead to an actual interesting discussion, but instead degenerated into the usual casual/midcore/hardcore tripe we get over in general discussion.

Exactly. Elitists should mind their own business, and quit with the lecturing, and I will mind mine.

If no one asked for your advice, just be quiet.

All in all, it's the elitists who started it. We won't be having this conversation if toxic behavior in dungeons didn't happen.

[Malevicton]

Exactly. Elitists should mind their own business, and quit with the lecturing, and I will mind mine.

If no one asked for your advice, just be quiet.

All in all, it's the elitists who started it. We won't be having this conversation if toxic behavior in dungeons didn't happen.

The problem imo is that elitists are always framed as hypotheticals. Seeing a wild elitist in nature is very rare, so anytime they're brought up they're made increasingly abstract. The more abstract they become the less relevant the conversation is to anything that will ever really happen. Flash forward through 20 pages of forum replies and you basically have people saying "Being rude is bad" and nodding at each other confidently, comfortable in the knowledge that they are the harbingers of justice and morality in an otherwise cruel and unfair world.

Also, why is giving advice bad? If someone's not open to it I won't push the issue, but if I see em doing something wrong I'll give em some tips.

Your last line is something I'd be hesitant to proclaim with confidence. It's basically a chicken/egg problem that predates this game (heck, predates gaming entirely in a vague enough sense) by quite a bit. It's a fine opinion, but I wouldn't use it as something axiomatic to form an argument out of.

[Bishop81]

Your last line is something I'd be hesitant to proclaim with confidence. It's basically a chicken/egg problem that predates this game (heck, predates gaming entirely in a vague enough sense) by quite a bit. It's a fine opinion, but I wouldn't use it as something axiomatic to form an argument out of.

The "cause" is simple really. Player interdependence.

So long as the whole group is "punished" for the failings of a few, there will always be conflict.

[Malevicton]

The "cause" is simple really. Player interdependence.

So long as the whole group is "punished" for the failings of a few, there will always be conflict.

Sure I guess?

I don't really get what point you're trying to make with that tbh.

[Bishop81]

Sure I guess?

I don't really get what point you're trying to make with that tbh.

To be frank, I'm not entirely sure what you meant in the last line of post #80 either.

Just saying, so long as interdependence exist, players will always have the "urge" (and justification) to butt in on other's business. And no one likes unsolicited "advice".

[Malevicton]

To be frank, I'm not entirely sure what you meant in the last line of post #80 either.

Just saying, so long as interdependence exist, players will always have the "urge" (and justification) to butt in on other's business. And no one likes unsolicited "advice".

I was saying it's a bit iffy to say the elitists are the source of the problem. It's akin to saying the chicken certainly came before the egg. That's fine if that's what you think, but it's certainly not universally accepted.

It's not really "other's business" if it's group content though. You're interdependent. One person's actions have a clear and immediate effect on the people around them. Your business becomes their business once y'all share a common goal. Nobody likes "advice" in quotes (which I assume to mean condescending or rudely offered advice?), but actual advice is great. It's much easier to improve with help from more experienced people. Obviously giving that advice in a rude way is rude, but advice itself is fine. If someone gets genuinely offended by neutral advice, they're being defensive.

[Bishop81]

I was saying it's a bit iffy to say the elitists are the source of the problem. It's akin to saying the chicken certainly came before the egg. That's fine if that's what you think, but it's certainly not universally accepted.

...

Oh, it is other people's business. It's just that given the current design of the game, their business affects yours.

The vast majority of the whining and toxicity encountered in the game can be traced back to this "interdependence".