Am I missing something about DRK?

[pandabearcat]

It just feels kinda boring spamming soul devourer.

I KNOW to use the syphon combo. If you guys read my posts, I use it exclusively. The problem is this still nets you roughly 2 dark arts a minute...kinda poopy.

I was hoping for more nuanced and liberal dark arts usage, esp since your defensive cds aren't actually useful unless you save DA for it, and Dark Passenger is an added mana drain.

I just feel that dark arts is way too little of an improvement for way too much cost, aside from using it with cds (and I'm assuming carve).

PS, do you guys spam delirium or go soul devourer? Soul is less potency but gives you healing. Do you notice the healing at all?

[Allyrion]

It just feels kinda boring spamming soul devourer.

I KNOW to use the syphon combo. If you guys read my posts, I use it exclusively. The problem is this still nets you roughly 2 dark arts a minute...kinda poopy.

I was hoping for more nuanced and liberal dark arts usage, esp since your defensive cds aren't actually useful unless you save DA for it, and Dark Passenger is an added mana drain.

I just feel that dark arts is way too little of an improvement for way too much cost, aside from using it with cds (and I'm assuming carve).

PS, do you guys spam delirium or go soul devourer? Soul is less potency but gives you healing. Do you notice the healing at all?

Only Dark Dance and Dark Mind are tied to DA. Shadowskin and Shadow Wall are useful all the time.

I use Delirium when I'm pretty topped off, and to keep the debuff up if there's no MNK.
I'll use SE if I feel like the heal won't be overheal and damage is a consistent.
The heal is noticeable but not really significant.

I get as much DA-SE as I can, but yea you do have to save it for CDs sometimes.
It's not that liberal, but I feel most of the DA effect is significant enough. I'd like if DA-SE gave more healing though.

Don't use Dark Passenger on single target. It's really not worth the mana.
And it's not a mana drain for AoE because of Blood Price.

There are a lot of fights where you can turn off DA to regain some mana, with minimal to no dps loss.
The biggest one is Ravana Ex. When tanking Rav Ex, I toggle Darkside a lot because there's a lot of waiting around between phases (and his damn reflect shields).
There are places to do that in most of the Alex fights too.

If they decide to buff DRK, then reducing the cost of Dark Arts would be pretty great.
It would be nice if it could be used more when Darkside already adds a drain.
But as it is, you can maintain with every 3rd combo which makes it a constant thing to do.

Add in proper Blood Price and Sole Survivor usage, as well as good Dark Side toggling, you get it a good bit more.

[Kleys]

Don't use Dark Passenger on single target. It's really not worth the mana.

Don't listen that guy.

[Kaedan94]

It just feels kinda boring spamming soul devourer.

I KNOW to use the syphon combo. If you guys read my posts, I use it exclusively. The problem is this still nets you roughly 2 dark arts a minute...kinda poopy.

Huh? o.O

No, that's wrong. Even without taking into account any of the MP regain options, you can DA every 4 GCDs (10 seconds) with an effective net loss of MP of zero (Syphon Strike gives half a DA). Take into account Blood Price and C&S, and you can get even more.

I would say that in the average minute, I've used DA at least 4-5 times. And if I'm tanking multiple mobs, I probably use DA more like 6-8 times a minute.

PS, do you guys spam delirium or go soul devourer? Soul is less potency but gives you healing. Do you notice the healing at all?

The problem is there is no correct answer to this. It all depends on the situation. But I actually rarely ever use Delirium. If there's no MNK in the group, I'll use it to keep the debuff up, but most times there's no use for it. The potency is slightly higher on the combo (20), but the healing from Soul Eater, even if it isn't DA, is generally more beneficial. If I'm nearly topped out on HP and not using a DA, then I might use Delirium.

But since I'm usually able to DA every 1.5 combos, it's generally better to use Soul Eater.

[Allyrion]

Huh? o.O

No, that's wrong. Even without taking into account any of the MP regain options, you can DA every 4 GCDs (10 seconds) with an effective net loss of MP of zero (Syphon Strike gives half a DA). Take into account Blood Price and C&S, and you can get even more.I would say that in the average minute, I've used DA at least 4-5 times. And if I'm tanking multiple mobs, I probably use DA more like 6-8 times a minute.

The problem is there is no correct answer to this. It all depends on the situation. But I actually rarely ever use Delirium. If there's no MNK in the group, I'll use it to keep the debuff up, but most times there's no use for it. The potency is slightly higher on the combo (20), but the healing from Soul Eater, even if it isn't DA, is generally more beneficial. If I'm nearly topped out on HP and not using a DA, then I might use Delirium.

But since I'm usually able to DA every 1.5 combos, it's generally better to use Soul Eater.

You're not counting Darkside. One of your syphons every 20s is paying for the drain, not rather than refunding a DA.
It's still roughly 3-4 a minute. Possibly more with Blood Price, but many Bosses have fairly spaced out attacks.
Sole Survivor can bump it up in most fights, and Carve and Split if you want to sacrifice the potency of that.

I agree it's definitely more than 2 a minute, but you can't talk about mana management without accounting for Darkside.
I also remember Dark Arts feeling more expensive while leveling.
I'm not sure how mana scales while levelling in this game. I do know your mana pool grows a lot post 50, but if it's all % based it wouldn't matter.

[Kaedan]

You're not counting Darkside. One of your syphons every 20s is paying for the drain, not rather than refunding a DA.
It's still roughly 3-4 a minute. Possibly more with Blood Price, but many Bosses have fairly spaced out attacks.
Sole Survivor can bump it up in most fights, and Carve and Split if you want to sacrifice the potency of that.

I agree it's definitely more than 2 a minute, but you can't talk about mana management without accounting for Darkside.
I also remember Dark Arts feeling more expensive while leveling.
I'm not sure how mana scales while levelling in this game. I do know your mana pool grows a lot post 50, but if it's all % based it wouldn't matter.

When I mentioned 4-5 times at least, and 6-8 times if tanking a trash pack, that's with Darkside on. I never turn Darkside off.

[Dracosavarian]

Others have given their advice, so, bear in mind what they have to say as well as what I am about to.

Right now, I am about halfway to 56. I will definitely state that compared to my Paladin, I have felt a lot more squishy on my Drk. And this is with full Vit gear on, and all stats pumped into Strength.

First of all, until you have full grasp of when and where to use Dark Arts, don't spam it. Use it sparingly. Get a comfort level with it first. To me, at my level, with a little over 3k mana, it feels like just using a single Dark Arts infused Soul Eater chews up close to 1000 mana.

That may not necessarily be the case, but seeing it drop that much hurts. A lot.

So, bearing that in mind, first of all go in with the mindset when you are starting that you should treat Dark Arts as the following: A use it when you need it type of ability.

Use it sparingly. Don't spam it. When I open in Dungeons and start to pull, one of the first things I do is activate a Dark Arts infused Dark Dance. For me, the dodge percentage in addition to Foresight, and Blood Weapon, has helped my opening mitigation dramatically.

Then, pull with Unmend, Hit unleash when the mobs are around you, scourge your primary target, and use Power slash combo. When Dark Dance Drops, activate Blood Price to help recover Mana. Then rotate between Soul Eater Combo and Delirium Combo as necessary.

By going one Rotation of Souleater > Delirium > Soul Eater > Delirium, you should have plenty of mana by that point to do what you need to do for another Dark Arts infused attack. Whether that be Dark Passenger to Blind the mobs, or to fuel Dark Mind for the buff, or Dark Arts for the increased 20% Dodge (Which I do find btw helps immensely. Your Mileage may vary)

The key is moderation. Don't spam it. The more you use this method, and get used to when you are in your comfort zone to activate it, the better you will do. And that really is the key to matters. Learning your comfort zone.

Eventually, when and where to use Dark Arts with your abilities will start to become second nature. To be honest, you shouldn't be firing it off every chance you get anyways, unless you are off tanking to begin with and have grit turned off. Then, Dark Arts is free for Spam central as Blood Weapon helps immensely with maintaining your mana as much as you will use it.

But while in Grit, be judgmental at all times for when it is appropriate to use it. If you are at 25% mana, you are already in the danger zone. Try to keep your mp hovering around the 40-50% range. Always pop blood price to help with mana whenever it is up. Especially when surrounded by multiple mobs. Only use Blood Price in Conjunction with a Non Dark Arts fueled Dark Dance, as the misses do nothing for your MP if you dodge hits.

Another thing: Though MP does not vary due to Str gear from Syphon Strike at all, since it is always a flat percentage, I would definitely look into some Str Accessories for your right side pieces of gear.

2-3 Pieces should help you significantly. The Damage will help increase the potency of your Soul Eater combos, especially when used in conjunction with Dark Arts. Thus less MP wasted per Combo overall. Yes, it won't be a huge amount when you have multiple mobs wailing on you. But it will help some. And it will also help ease pressure on the healer some as well.

Moderation is key. Find your balance at first. Don't go crazy with it. Go a few dungeons if you can as practice with a group where you can use Dark Arts with some of your abilities, and try to resist firing it off every chance you get. Get that comfort level, to where you begin to learn how and when it is appropriate to fire it off while in Grit.

Once you gain that comfort level, and become more familiar with how it taxes your Mana, you can start to push it and stretch out a bit, tweak your rotations into something that works for you that won't seem like you are bottoming out every five seconds.

Another thing to keep in mind is that at times it is appropriate to turn darkside off. Long phases during trials or bosses where your MP would just be drained away for example, is a key time to turn it off and then back on.

Hope this helps.

[pandabearcat]

When I mentioned 4-5 times at least, and 6-8 times if tanking a trash pack, that's with Darkside on. I never turn Darkside off.

Where are you getting the mana for that?

Lets assume no blood price for now, and full grit/darkside.

in 60 seconds you get 8 full syphon combos.

Like people have previously said, you use 3 syphons for darkside.

You use 2 syphons to pay for dark passenger, which is more efficient than darkside.

This ends up with 3 syphons remaining. Of course you are still starting with a full mana pool, so in shorter fights you can use more, but even with blood price, starting from 0 or near 0 mp, you will only get 2 dark arts a minute, MAYBE 3.

And then at 60, I'm assuming you use 1 of those dark arts for carve.

So then you have 1-2 left. If you have to use any of those for a defensive, you're left with 0 or 1 DA a minute for souleater.

EDIT: also I'm confused on how salted earth works. Is it a one time hit? Is it a dot like shadowflare? Its confusing to me.

[saber_alter]

-snip-

salted earth is a DoT like shadowflare.

MP management is trivial at best. numbers are slightly off though. dark arts normally costs 2 syphon strikes, and dark passenger costs 1. (i believe it is at least, i get around 884 mp per a syphon, and dark passenger costs 884 from what i remember. extra syphons are probably just to offset cost of Darkside)

more often then not, you won't be using DA+DP against bosses at least. normal mobs depending how much damage you take (even then a trashpull more than enough offsets that with blood price, especially at 4+ mobs).