Bard - they broke my job

[Aiselia]

in general BRD is in about the same place relatively as it was in 2.x

Which then leads to the question of why WM needs the downside of cast times if it is only putting Bards at the same relative point that they were at before.

[aabe]

Which then leads to the question of why WM needs the downside of cast times if it is only putting Bards at the same relative point that they were at before.

Cause it gives BRD something that actually gives them a semblance of scaling that they didn't have before.
Everyone got new stuff sure but BRD has zero scaling. If SE were to have added anything to BRD it would have had to be super OP for it to be where it is right now, because otherwise gear scaling would pull melee far far far way farther ahead. I said this wayyyyy earlier in the thread but buff uptime like MNK GL+DK+TwS, HT+Disembowel, etc. All make it so that, if WM didn't exist, adding 100 ilvls would only put melee and BRD farther and farther apart.

Like to be honest they didn't really have a way to do that with anything besides giving BRD a stance. With the community complaining about how BRD can strafe all over the place for free and never lose damage something like WM should've been expected ESPECIALLY after SE said they'd do something about it a long time ago.

[yamochan]

With the community complaining about how BRD can strafe all over the place for free and never lose damage something like WM should've been expected ESPECIALLY after SE said they'd do something about it a long time ago.

the reason i cant and wont accept WM ,as it is, is pretty simple actually i played a lot of other mmos before and in all of those are classes that do the same thing bard did before 3.0 and in all those mmos said class is on par with the rest dmgwise and/or supportwise and can still avoid pretty much everything and NOONE was complaining about that.
wow did something to hunter were they have to stop from time to time to get energy and i was ok with that but thats it. i dont want to play melee and i dont want play static classes so bard was the perfect class and now it isnt anymore so ofc im pissed its only normal i would not even mind the casttimes if i could still move with them.

[dielray]

Cause it gives BRD something that actually gives them a semblance of scaling that they didn't have before.
Everyone got new stuff sure but BRD has zero scaling. If SE were to have added anything to BRD it would have had to be super OP for it to be where it is right now, because otherwise gear scaling would pull melee far far far way farther ahead. I said this wayyyyy earlier in the thread but buff uptime like MNK GL+DK+TwS, HT+Disembowel, etc. All make it so that, if WM didn't exist, adding 100 ilvls would only put melee and BRD farther and farther apart.

May I have you elaborate on this please? I'm not sure what scaling you're referring to or really how the buffs play in to it. How is this scaling something bards lacked but BLM or SMN didn't? The only scaling issue I see is the growing gap in WD, which WM doesn't help.

[Aiselia]

Cause it gives BRD something that actually gives them a semblance of scaling that they didn't have before.

I'm not really sure I understand what you're getting at. I don't see how that gives them any scaling they didn't have before. At least, not by my understanding of scaling.

WM is a flat 30% boost. It doesn't give a bigger boost the larger the weapon damage gap is. It's not scaled to how big the gap's going to be.

When WD for melee is 100, Bards will still be 10 behind. When WD for melee is at 110, Bards will still be at 99.

The gap's still going to grow despite WM because part of WM is already spent getting over that gap and the rest is offset by things like Heavy Thrust, NIN venoms, and GL.

Basically, for Bards to remain at the relative point they are now by the end of the expansion, they'll likely need to buff Bard damage a bit more somehow, in order to compensate for the gap.

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On the topic of attack animations: I'm currently using the Star Seeker bow skin from the Lightning event. It doesn't have a quiver. So while some people are at least reaching for an arrow for one and a half seconds, I'm just kinda standing there wiggling my fingers behind my head.

[yamochan]

can anyone explain to me why we got that much WD in the first place? it doesnt make much sense to me from just seeing it. would rly help me understandthe other classes better if i knew why BRD and MCH must have less. i mean it cant just be so that we got less dmg than the rest there must be some reason to it right?

also to animation be glad that Star Seeker now at least aims at the target and not in the skys like it did after it got added. XD

but yeah i can accept less fancy animation if the skills are effective.

[ruskie]

can anyone explain to me why we got that much WD in the first place? it doesnt make much sense to me from just seeing it. would rly help me understandthe other classes better if i knew why BRD and MCH must have less. i mean it cant just be so that we got less dmg than the rest there must be some reason to it right?

Because we have mobility. We can keep 100% uptime while dodging and such.

[yamochan]

Because we have mobility. We can keep 100% uptime while dodging and such.

only that we cant anymore so it makes 0 sense

[Clarkamite]

only that we cant anymore so it makes 0 sense

Don't have any numbers for you to give you a real good feel but the amount of DPS you can add with a Foe Rec more than makes up for whatever you would be missing in WD. Bard has the ability to give you an absolute monster increase of DPS just by singing a song so the tradeoff has to be that they do less. Otherwise there would be no point to running anything other than two Bards and two other DPS.

I can tell you from being a caster that with the way the game is scaling now, it's even more noticeable than it was before. What is normally a 3700 Fire IV all of a sudden becomes a 4400 Fire IV. If your group is like mine and runs two casters, that increase is made even more astronomical. Not saying it doesn't suck to feel underpowered compared to other DPS, because it does, but you can't really say too much about playing a job who's main draw was that they enhance the rest of the group. They were never meant to be a standout DPS monster by themselves.

[AkashiXI]

Because we have mobility. We can keep 100% uptime while dodging and such.

I don't quite understand this argument though. Summoner has the ability to constantly dps regardless of movement, so why isn't their weapon inherently weaker to their Black Mage counterpart? Also I could see your reasoning back in maybe 2.2, but almost every ex primal, coil (except a few spots like t13 Earthshaker) and dungeons cater to turret style gameplay. Very rarely do I see a melee jump off the boss, and A1/2 savage practically begs you to play endgame like it's Striking Dummy Savage Mode.