Bard - they broke my job

[lordjoosie]

Realistically, MCH and BRD are the stars of burst and they are very even with melee in a 2-3 minute run. MNK gets the same padding from elixir wave, I can see a group clearing faust with 2BRD easily especially with a DRG.

You can't believe this is true, I refuse to believe you do. Stars of burst damage? very even with melee in a 2-3 min fight? If you show me a parse of a bard that is even top 2 in DPS versus savage Faust, I can tell you that you most certainly lost the fight. I can point you to videos of other DPS in that exact fight doing high 1300s and 1400+ DPS. Can you point to a bard , (the master of burst damage and even with other melee) coming even close to that?

As far as padding DPS with AOE, 3 flaming arrows versus 2 DFD in a 3 min fight. They both have their "padding" neither is significantly different from the other.

[lordjoosie]

You pretty much agreed with everything I said, and you took the quoted part out of context. A Bard dealing 1.1k damage on average in Savage is great , but I agree that other dps do more damage and (situationally) bring more to the table than our support dps does. My Dragoon friend is hitting upwards of 1.4k on good runs, that's pretty exceptional. WITH disembowl, I can manage between 1.1 to 1.2 on a 3 min fight, depending on rng in my opener. So, once again, I think Bard is doomed in a raid setting in the long term (where you no longer need their songs), but they're fine in progression. My personal solution? Give us more optimization support tools, e.g Trick Attack, so we're always in a scenario where we can always speed up the win, not prolong it.

I reread your post, and you're right. I misunderstood the tone of what you were saying. It makes more sense in context.

[aabe]

.

DFD is 250 potency, flaming arrow is 350 potency over 30 seconds. 35 Potency/tick

A single DFD hitting a group of stuff bumps your numbers a lot higher than 3 flaming arrows.


If your group is kiting the adds at all you'll get at most 2 ticks of flaming arrow. I said they were even with melee and you can beat Faust's check with 2 bards most likely. MNK even outdpses DRG even though DRG is another good burst job, because of elixir field.
You're interpreting my point incorrectly. I was saying the DPS required for Faust is lower than what people are saying, DUE TO THE EXTRA DPS THAT SHOWS ON YOUR PARSER FROM HITTING ADDS WITH AOE. BRD can do 1300 there with disembowel, it's not a big deal at all to have two bards.

[Empty-handed]

I have 3 weeks to decide wether stick with bard or change to machinist. I used machinist tonight raid a1 savage.

I hate how clunky and restricted bard is. Machinist has far more freedom. With comparable dps.

Play wise machinist is more ... Hmmm ... Complete than bard. Unfortunately. The only issue they have imo without reload/quick reload. U r under the mercy of rng procs with no way to control, only thing under ur control is to react to them fast.

Not to mention machinist rotation flows nicely. Buffs and reloads line up perfectly together. Bard.... Ggs too many offgcds coming at the same time. It's too messy.

[Empty-handed]

We need some trait that makes iron jaws or empereal arrow without cast... Or dots.... Slapping cast time to everything is just damn lazy design.

Thank God for iron jaws. Otherwise it will be more messy.

[Darkovercast]

I started my XIV journey in 2.0 leveling all of the jobs to 50 first to get a real feel of what jobs I'd like at max level. I found very quickly that I'm not really a fan of the combat system, but playing on BRD with the 2.0 mechanics you escape all of that. What was annoying was now enjoyable. Every BRD I know feels like minded on this.
With the introduction of our new move set from 50-60 the job goes about a huge monumental change, and I feel it's a failure of understanding what we liked about the job.
I fear I won't find something enjoyable, or be forced to play BRDs new rotation with WM. Or be isolated still using the 2.0 mechanics, ignoring the 3.0 ones which is what I'm doing to date. I feel like I push enough DMG just not optimal DMG.
At this rate I know Ill slip into crafting and gathering, ignoring all of the new content coming out. But more likely end playing, which is a shame because my group that I roll with are just starting to function very well together..

[Katchoo]

At this rate I know Ill slip into crafting

Don't worry, they broke crafting too.

[pinder2009]

My static with me as BRD, a MNK, DRG, and NIN beat Faust in savage a1. I was at 1204 dps which put me about 150dps lower than our MNK and DRG. NIN was at 1120. Our MNK could be even higher but there were weird lag issues in that instance so he wasn't able to execute his opener perfectly which dropped his dps a bit. All I can say is that BRD dps is not an issue here in the faust encounter - if you're not breaking at least 1k as a BRD you're doing something wrong.

[Snowaeth]

Brd dps potential is not an issue. (It somewhat was before WM adjustment).
And if we ignore the fact that SE changes the way BRD was played for the past 2 years which is an issue of its own, but is not related to what bards real dps performance can be
(Although the change forces bards into learning how to play as casters thus dropping average performance of those that still have trouble learning it.)

The issue with bard is the way it plays, with a couple of skills not working well with cast times.
It is absolutely playable and you can reach good numbers with it, but instead of having a streamlined rotation, you need to dodge and work around issues with skills all the time which in itself feels broken.
Some people have fun with that kind of gameplay, some don't and some just can't get over the fact that we'r stuck with WM now.

But I ll definitely not agree on how the bard change was handled.
It shows really bad design to me.
Not only because of the issues I mention above, but it also uses a copy pasted stance from another job, which lowers the option of class choice if you do not like that particular playstyle forced by this stance.
Let alone it being slapped on a job that has skills which will cause trouble with it unlike the other one that was designed around the stance.

[Wishles]

Let's be real. SE hates ranged melee DPS. They don't care.