Dark Knight Feedback

[Faytte]

Overpowering suggestions.


DRK have great aoe and good single target. You provide a debuff which is used in many encounters at the moment, and you trade a paladins utility for much better damage. A war tanks has better debuffs, for certain, but your debuffs are in line with a paladins (one debuff, effects only one type of damage).

If you want things like utility or defensives to compare to a paladin, id say you should then loose some damage.


Not every class gets a tp regen. Paladins --again-- dont. You are *not* a dps--and while warriors do, they are meant to excel as off tanks. Between ninjas, astro, machinist and bard, you can regain tp. More so, you can simply throw in unmakes to your combo for 150 magic damage that allows you to recover 60 tp every time its used. If you use 3 unmakes every 1.5 ish minutes, you have mimicked all the tp regen from equilibirum.

Dark Arts + Drain is meant for mass aoe pulls, where blood price gives you a ton of mana back. The cost in these cases is irrelevant.

On the opposite hand, blood price is not meant to be free mana on single targets--where you are not using that much MP (note: all of your AOE is heavily mp focused, ergo why Blood Price works really well in AOE situations). Basic mana management is needed here.

Dark dance is 20 seconds, 1 minute cd for 30% parry and 20% dodge. Even without the dodge (since some things ignore it, especially in raids) you have an ability that gives you half the benefits of Bulwark (considered an iconic paladin cd) but has 33% more update (20 seconds vs 15) and 1/3 the cd (60 seconds vs 180 seconds). This is a great cd. Not all cd's are supposed to be straight damage mitigation.

Stopped reading at this point. Tiresome to read so many DRK's not understand how their class actually is balanced against others -.- Reading them you think they want to dps like a war, and mitigate like a paladin, as well as have equal utility.

Paladin: low damage, -no- real aoe, good mitigation (mostly physical), good utility
DRK: Amazing AOE, best magic defense, access to many short cds, the most OGCD attacks of any tank (over 2K potency is OGCD per minute), best damage while staying in tank stance.
War: Best OT, best burst damage, good debuffs, most anal as far as MT given IB takes a GCD to proc and its buff does not last through all types of busters.

Dark needs some fixes but mostly in duplicity. Their power is -just- fine. Savage is being cleared with darks in the party and I've heard no complaints from those FC's yet. More an issue of people new to tanking.

[Habien]

Snip

Your bias is a bit blinding, you may want to see a doctor.

[Calib0s]

Words

From reading your reply, it's pretty obvious that you barely skimmed the post. That's fine.You're entitled to your opinion, but quite frankly if you're not even willing to read through the full post you can't offer much to the discussion. And to be perfectly blunt, based off of your response here and looking at your lodestone profile, it seems like you probably don't have much relevant end-game experience.

But yes, Dark Knights are perfectly viable main tanks at the moment. I say as much in my post. It's not like this is a Warrior 2.0 situation, and if you gathered that I was trying to imply that (even though I went to lengths specifically to avoid that...) I apologize. However, I feel that they are useless as an off tank and can't imagine a serious progression group using one as such in Savage and that's something that does severely impact place in a raid comp.

I also find several abilities in the kit redundant, weak, or borderline pointless in the end-game environment. That doesn't mean that Dark Knight is bad, nor are they the only class with weak or bad skills in their kit. I think that all such skills should be improved, but it would take more effort than I'm willing to give at the moment to go over them all.

You're focusing on the suggestions, but that's really not the point of my post. Just me throwing a few ideas out. I don't expect most of these to be considered as a real solution. The point is mainly to highlight the areas in which I feel Dark Knight is lacking.

[Reynhart]

your debuffs are in line with a paladins (one debuff, effects only one type of damage).

Except only PLD can put a Strength Down debuff.
Give us something, still magical, than won't be useless if a MNK is here.

[Faytte]

Except only PLD can put a Strength Down debuff.
Give us something, still magical, than won't be useless if a MNK is here.

You have a shared debuff you can put up all the time.
You have a unique debuff you can put up while your tanking.

The other tanks don't have 'two' debuffs that reduce damage. While they have 'one' unique one, you have to keep this in mind when you are asking for things. You could, with some skill, have both of your debuffs up at the same time for a critical attack--so yes, of course your stand alone debuff isnt going to be unique.

And of course....you might not have a monk *GASP*

[Reynhart]

You have a shared debuff you can put up all the time.
You have a unique debuff you can put up while your tanking.

The other tanks don't have 'two' debuffs that reduce damage. While they have 'one' unique one, you have to keep this in mind when you are asking for things. You could, with some skill, have both of your debuffs up at the same time for a critical attack--so yes, of course your stand alone debuff isnt going to be unique.

And of course....you might not have a monk *GASP*

Indeed, I might not have a MNK with me when tanking a magical boss...so I can use my basically only debuff, since I won't parry magical attacks to use my other debuff.
Or I be might facing a physical boss, and so, my Delirium is useless, MNK or not, and my reprisal unreliable...and the party would be far better with a PLD anyway.
Or I might be facing a magical boss as an OT, with a MNK in my party, thus, having 0 usefull debuff.
Or I might be facing a physical boss as an OT, so...yeah, you see what I mean

This is Dark Knight the might...y tank

[Faytte]

snip

If you are facing a physical boss, you face the same issues paladins now face when facing a magical boss (a4, the buster in savage a1, etc).

Your not in a bad situation? You have a very valuable debuff--and you dont always have monks in your party (Hell, I avoid having a monk in favor of lancer/bard/smn/ninja. That seems a better combo personally).

Then when you tank, you have a proc based added 10% mitigation you can apply as extra sauce. Its a fantastic kit that so far, is more applicative in alexander than the paladin kid has been. Cant block lasers or the A1 savage buster. Cant block buster in A4.

[Reynhart]

If you are facing a physical boss, you face the same issues paladins now face when facing a magical boss (a4, the buster in savage a1, etc).

Indeed, but against a physical boss, every PLD tool is always useful.

(Hell, I avoid having a monk in favor of lancer/bard/smn/ninja. That seems a better combo personally).

Wether I play in Duty Finder, join a Party Finder or join a static, I play with whatever job other people want to play with.

Then when you tank, you have a proc based added 10% mitigation you can apply as extra sauce. Its a fantastic kit that so far, is more applicative in alexander than the paladin kid has been. Cant block lasers or the A1 savage buster. Cant block buster in A4.

But that 10% mitigation is based on parrying. Can't parry anything from boss in A4.

The problem with DRK is that they have a toolkit for magical that's good, a toolkit for physical that's average, but no toolkit that's really great. (DRK's magical mitigation doesn't come anywhere close to PLD's physical mitigation)

If they want us to be the "magical" tank, get rid of everything tied to parry (or evasion) or add an effect to Grit where we can parry (or evade) magical attacks.

[Faytte]

SNIP

Paladin has incredibly short cds and is bad against nothing.

Oh magic? I get a 1 minute 30% mitigator for sauce, and 10% damage down debuff.
Oh physical? I get a 20 second parry buff with only a 1 min downtime, and a proc 10% damage debuff.

Paladins on physical: oh this is a laugh
Paladins on magical: help me -.-

The difference is that a paladin -always- is effected by their lowered damage vs other tanks, regardless of if their 'great defenses' apply or not.