Curious on opinion. Smn or Mch. Which would you pick?

[Inosaska]

Unfortunately these posts have only served to further confuse and dishearten me. In the end I just went Smn, not because of this topic but because I'm just more use to it and after having gotten it to level 60 and seeing Deathflare firsthand has me giggle like a school girl each time I use it. While I appreciate the discussion in the topic thus far, I'm afraid that it only ended up having me never wanting to try a support class again with all the back and forth going on, just easier to go with a dps class with less support options in favor of not having to repeat this same debate among friends and fellow team members.

It honestly depends. You can go with summoner and have fun enjoy a class that's basically a warlock or you can play MCH with a unique style that feels like its from the Final Fantasy universe. That's basically an easier way to break it down. The summoner in this game is not following the tradition of Final Fantasy universe plain and simple. Its something different but also puts it in a weird place when later on they try to add more summons because it will leave them deciding what to add next for skills. The class feels like its rushed and its very noticeable with the job quests requiring very little time effort in them and just requires you to complete simple tasks that are not engaging at all. I don't mind the job quests pre 50 but anything after 50 is basically a joke and feels rushed. I do hope they review the class and decide to overhaul it and follow the Final Fantasy universe tradition something that Final Fantasy XI had no problem doing at all.

[Greedalox]

^ Lots of classes in this game don't follow the FF Cookie Cutter and that's not necessarily a negative. XI was also an IMMENSELY different game in most almost every regard, so comparing SMN here and then is like apples and oranges.

[Minorinz]

I did read it. He clearly states repeatedly that they don't take into account healer damage when designing the things.
As such, "Healer damage" is not important if you're doing it the right way, which includes gear.
I never said healers don't do damage ever. I said that healers have to heal, so I don't consider Foe's as "always useful" for them because they're not going to be always attacking, and certainly not for the minute-straight that Foe's can be up, unless the Tank is significantly over-geared for the dungeon or incredible at damage mitigation.

That's normal for you to say because you don't raid and it seems you also turn a blind eye to good healers in dungeon who even ask for foes. Btw, yoshi does say that healer's dps is needed when they are pushing on content while being under geared or barely on the mark. Lucrezia did it so that's proof right there.

Or if it's a SCH in a low level dungeon, but you wouldn't have Foe's there anyways.
After all, that was about the use of Bard songs in non-Raids compared to other class' utilities. Remember?

Foes is considered a bard utilty and you will always have a healer in 4-man dungeons. Whether you like it or not that foe will always be optional just like any other job on utility, it's up to the player on how they wanna maximize.

Well yes. Around here, at least, we learned that if something is at 100 and another thing is at 90, then that second thing is 10% lower than the thing at 100.
You seemed to be lost on the concept that BRD/MCH weapons have lower weapon damage than every other physical class.

I was being sarcastic hence the "?!?!!?" spam. jeez. This is no fun. I am fully aware on how WD works but you aren't, hence why you think that if SE buffs their weapon damage it'll fix whatever you think it will.

This loses a lot of sting when it's coming from someone who apparently didn't even know about the weapon damage difference.
Anyways, this is my last post here because of several reasons, not the least of which is the straying from the actual topic.

From someone who think they are being stung, this is hilarious. Again, I know how it works and I never bothered to track every weapon and compare. SE has their own damage measurement tools and they know how to equate them.

But also because you're not even paying attention to what I'm talking about before going on irrelevant tangents about raids, so... no point.

You've been nitpicking lines and twisting them out of context whenever you please, so I have no comment on that statement of yours. As for low level content, SE isn't stupid to "balance" bad players to reach up to other well played jobs. That argument is very silly. Bard does lower damage than other jobs but it's not significant that it would make the job a burden.

Unfortunately these posts have only served to further confuse and dishearten me. In the end I just went Smn, not because of this topic but because I'm just more use to it and after having gotten it to level 60 and seeing Deathflare firsthand has me giggle like a school girl each time I use it. While I appreciate the discussion in the topic thus far, I'm afraid that it only ended up having me never wanting to try a support class again with all the back and forth going on, just easier to go with a dps class with less support options in favor of not having to repeat this same debate among friends and fellow team members.

I'm so sorry to hear that, support jobs are tough to play when being as to how they should be. I remember back in 2.0 when nobody wanted a summoner for FCoB and bard was guaranteed a spot. Let me say this though.
Finding a really good summoner that knows how to play the job 100% is not like finding a bard that knows when sing, minimize mobility and maximize damage output when at 90% of being perfect. Same about machinist. In the end, it's up to you. Enjoy playing summoner!!

[Saggo]

^ Lots of classes in this game don't follow the FF Cookie Cutter and that's not necessarily a negative. XI was also an IMMENSELY different game in most almost every regard, so comparing SMN here and then is like apples and oranges.

I'd agree with the sentiment more if SE wasn't following a WoW Cookie Cutter Warlock so much.

[Greedalox]

I'd agree with the sentiment more if SE wasn't following a WoW Cookie Cutter Warlock so much.

I feel like we're back in 2013.

[Saggo]

I feel like we're back in 2013.

"Two different games" and "Cookie Cutter bad" aren't old-ass arguments? It wouldn't be so bad except SE's big addition to SMN (this year) is just demon form without the graphics.

[Greedalox]

"Two different games" and "Cookie Cutter bad" aren't old-ass arguments? It wouldn't be so bad except SE's big addition to SMN (this year) is just demon form without the graphics.

Then let me give you the argument that is old as time. Play something else if you're so bent out of shape about it.

[Saggo]

Then let me give you the argument that is old as time. Play something else if you're so bent out of shape about it.

Yes, because the only two options are to agree completely or just ragequit. For a bit of novel thought, it's entirely possible to enjoy something and still disagree with certain directions it goes.

[Greedalox]

Yes, because the only two options are to agree completely or just ragequit. For a bit of novel thought, it's entirely possible to enjoy something and still disagree with certain directions it goes.

Not quite, but you can say what you want me to say all you want. I said no such thing . Just figured with all the generic and cookie cutter claims with negative "wouldn't be so bad if..." kind of has an implication that the class is underwhelming or even bad in your eyes. Whatever though, have fun with your "graphicless Demon Form Warlock".

[Saggo]

Not quite, but you can say what you want me to say all you want. I said no such thing . Just figured with all the generic and cookie cutter claims with negative "wouldn't be so bad if..." kind of has an implication that the class is underwhelming or even bad in your eyes. Whatever though, have fun with your "graphicless Demon Form Warlock".

I didn't jump straight to quit SMN if you're so bent out of shape after one wouldn't be so bad . I am sorry that "I would agree with your sentiment more..." is too negative.

Perfectly functional job, but if we're going to go argue it's OK to not copy from Final Fantasy, let's at least acknowledge SE flagrantly copied from another franchise. It should be apparent SMN's not a snowflake, we're all playing the same job after all.