Bard - they broke my job

[Aiselia]

It is unfortunate that SE has decided to basically make two jobs (brd & mch) nearly identical, and magically at the same time make them obsolete in the content.

And even better, give AST some MP/TP regen that they can spread around that won't negatively affect DPS.

[Sessurea]

And even better, give AST some MP/TP regen that they can spread around that won't negatively affect DPS.

I'm cool with that, more foe for blm. Less damage nerf for me.

[yamochan]

I'm cool with that, more foe for blm. Less damage nerf for me.

no ur not cool with that cause no manasong means no bard in raids means again no foe for anyone

AST still fails short of everything else though compared to WHM amd SCH when it comes to what actually matters; healing output.

not all fights are healing heavy encounters (ravana ex doesnt need much for example) bring the AST and buff the everloving shit out

4. Alex 1 Savage went completely fine for me with my static and BRD either does more than enough in one fight or their songs are valuable. One or the other.
You people act like numbers are why anybody wants a BRD

send us some data of ur "more than enough" plz cause with that we can work and i dont belive in more than enoughs i belive in numbers

[Lunalo]

There's a funny thing about balancing utility with straight power: If you have both, you automatically become OP. Some players remember Ninjas before the nerfs? They had top-tier damage AND crazy utility in the form of Goad and Trick Attack. Why would you take other jobs when Ninjas had the best damage AND could stagger multiple Trick Attacks for everyone?

And this is why Bards are the way they are now, because if Bard mains have their cake and eat it too in terms of DPS output, they will be the only job in the game worth taking. I mean why would you bother with melees or even offensive casters if a ranged could bring literally all of the damage AND their utility songs?

[Lunalo]

If Bards and Machinists are getting kicked/denied spots from PUGs and statics simply for their choice of job, then generally speaking you don't want to associate with these people. Photos and videos of Alexander Savage world 1st progression groups clearly show at least 1 bard in their respective groups so obviously they cannot be bad. As far as meeting DPS checks are concerned, I had at least 1 Bard keep up with my i180 Ninja DPS in phase 3 of Bismarck EX which calls for LOTS of mobility with WM being notably off for most of it due to not wanting to die.

All that aside I still think the playstyle changes that happened to the bard really should've called for some kind of wider beta test at least to see how the community was gonna take it, and to iron out those early math kinks they screwed up.

[yamochan]

snip

ok then you as a ninja are the perfect example u are melee and i know thats harder to play but u also bringt a 10% dmg boost thats up 2/3 of the time and the tp buff for 1 person but you dont get any bad things from that...

now bard brings a 10% macig armor reduce (not flat dmg boost, 20% with cd) and a mana/tp song that will not be used by all players only the heals/mana OR melees/tp for that we get a 20% dmg debuff so it would be balanced thx to the debuff IF we had the same base dps output as a ninja wich we just cant do if u play ur class right.
so our dmg boosts are about even and the support is balanced as well only thing thats different is our class dmg and thats were you shine while we fade into nothingless (the best bards performance was a 900 dps ravana ex kill, the nin inthat fight had 1.1k if i read correctly)
with WM we should have the same dps as anyone else but thats just not the case

[Katchoo]

And this is why Bards are the way they are now, because if Bard mains have their cake and eat it too in terms of DPS output, they will be the only job in the game worth taking. I mean why would you bother with melees or even offensive casters if a ranged could bring literally all of the damage AND their utility songs?

This is very very true BUT Bards damage balance was always around it's mobility not it's songs.

Imagen if Ninja had originally had a 15% damage reduction for the duration that Goad was up, would that have been a fair balance? hmm not sure but you get the picture.

Songs have their own balance system that is independent for the most part from the rest of the job. The reason they effect our damage output in the big picture is because they take up the space of where other jobs would usually have DPS skills. Which brings me to my next point.

I'm not saying i totally disagree with you, i am happy not to be top DPS, i enjoy brining utility to the group and i think many people who play Bard would agree. The problem was that once you started to stack Bard it became detrimental to the group.

SE philosophy for this and to try and change Bard has always been "you should not need specific Jobs to play content" but it's complete bullshit. You always take at least one melee DPS, you always take a WAR and PLD combo and always take a WHM and SCH combo. It's more efficient that way, sure you can do it fine with other combinations but was not optimal.

Why did Bard have to be changed in such a way? Surly it could have had it's damage scaled along with all the other jobs quite easily? Had it's complexity enhanced in line with other jobs by, off the top off my head, being even more DoT focused in line with SMN rather than trying to be some kind of BLM.

[yamochan]

snip

im just adding to that. the BRD before 3.0 was a unique class like all the others now its just a weak BLM ripoff with a battery charger and no flow in his skills

[Taban]

There's a funny thing about balancing utility with straight power: If you have both, you automatically become OP. Some players remember Ninjas before the nerfs? They had top-tier damage AND crazy utility in the form of Goad and Trick Attack. Why would you take other jobs when Ninjas had the best damage AND could stagger multiple Trick Attacks for everyone?

And this is why Bards are the way they are now, because if Bard mains have their cake and eat it too in terms of DPS output, they will be the only job in the game worth taking. I mean why would you bother with melees or even offensive casters if a ranged could bring literally all of the damage AND their utility songs?

Kind of like that crit buff that drg the top dps has? =p Every class brings utility

[Aiselia]

if a ranged could bring literally all of the damage AND their utility songs?

Because you wouldn't need more than one Ballad/Paeon and Bards can't buff each others' damage.

Bring a DRG and they're buffing the Bard's damage and their own while bringing their crit buff.

Bring a SMN and Bard buffs their damage as well as being the only DPS that can revive people.

Bring a NIN and they can buff tank damage and everyone's damage with TA.

I mean, I'd have thought that class synergy would be the obvious reason to not stack classes given equal damage output.

generally speaking you don't want to associate with these people.

I'm sure that's little comfort to the people who spend 20 minutes in duty finder queue just to get kicked and have to start all over again.

They might have literally wasted 20 minutes, but hey, at least they're not in a group with a bunch of jerks, amirite?