Naoki Yoshida, Balance the game please [War DPS TOO HIGH!]

[Alacran]

Nothing but sad and pathetic. As a DRK main it really is sad to so many others whining so much for what another job has, really WAR has been through the crucible of all 1.0, 2.0 to it's current iteration. One day we will get a look back at our tool kits and be adjusted as such. At this moment with gear constantly being introduced, the long term effects of changing anything on DRK are simply above what the player base can envision in terms of gameplay balance. So damn eager and ready to cry foul until your overpowered but wont take a moment to understand you don't know the end game, the plan, or the direction the creators are going to chose to take the job. What so many seem to forget is your a TANK... Why are you so damn hung up on another tanks dps? if your having trouble mainlining hate it may very well be your looking to a WAR's dps to much and not focusing on the task at hand. Remember you are no longer a dps, your role has changed, learn to deal accordingly.

[Kiteless]

"Considerable" amount of time ? PLD and DRK's mitigation cooldown want to have a word with you

Between defiance and the opportunity for Inner Beast, that's essentially missing out on 40% of your damage mitigation (20% for 10 seconds, another 20% for about ~25) in order to land a couple of (admittedly really satisfying) hits, in addition to the extra healing required by switching stances. That's actually one hell of a commitment.

Indeed, it's WAR perk...that still puts it far above other tank DPS as MT, whereas its mitigation is pretty much on par too.

PLD offers a unique set of party support skills, just as WAR does, and while WAR's consistent damage mitigation might be on par with PLD, PLD will edge it out on physical tankbusters, overall making it an easier class to play, what with not having to deal with nearly as much risk to get its best toys off. While PLD might have some issues with hate and TP management, that doesn't really have anything to do with WAR's abilities being excessive.

And let's not use DRK as the basis for comparing the "overpowered" nature of anything. That train wreck of a class' problems are all its own.

[Ladon]

A tank shouldn't be outdpsing you.

Also why would you put fell cleave on a timer ? You do know you can't spam the ability right ? The reason war has that insane dps (it's really not that great, what do you expect that we would still do the same dps as 2.0 despite the gear and level upgrades ._. ?) is again due to beserk and storm's eye.

War is also a burst tank, but once that burst vanishes we have to rebuild it back up.

Finally unless you are MTing in deliverance (in which case as a Astro/SCH I hate you with all my being) what is the problem ? Deliverance is meant to be off tank I highly doubt alex savage will allow War to get away with mting in that.

You guys are using easy content to jutisfy a nerf to the class, you don't even know what alex savage will hold ._.

Oh come on. You can pop off THREE Fell Cleaves under Berserk every 90 seconds and it takes you all of 20 seconds to re-build Abandon and fire off another FC.

To put that in perspective, you basically get three full powered FCs + 3 regular FCs for every ONE Dark Knight Carve and Split; adding that all FCs have a far superior net potency thanks to maim + Deliverance + 50 extra skill potency.

This kind of burst capability on a warrior is just dumb. The fact that it plays into how this game is designed is just overpowered. You are far better off with a class in this game that can sustain 600 DPS and burst up to 1300DPS for a few seconds every minute or so than you will ever be off with a class that can sustain 800DPS and have no burst.

I mean you could remove the recast on Carve and Split, put it on the GCD and people would step back and cry foul at how powerful it is. Yet that STILL wouldn't match what Warriors are able to dish out with Fell Cleave. That is how broken it is not having FC on a recast.

[Noira]

No one has yet to address my Alex Savage comment though ._..

Like all of this is well and fine but this is on EASY content...Hell a healer can probably pump high dps out like that on easy content.

Bring a party of War and clear Alex Savage within a week then I will believe Deliverance is op and not a situational ability that sacrifices mitigation for decent dps.

[Kiteless]

Oh come on. You can pop off THREE Fell Cleaves under Berserk every 90 seconds and it takes you all of 20 seconds to re-build Abandon and fire off another FC.

And in doing so, you end up burning most of your mitigation options all at once while not being in an position to actually soak a tankbuster. Any WAR who does something like that while expecting to take any serious hits better have some healers altruistic to the point of sainthood.

To put that in perspective, you basically get three full powered FCs + 3 regular FCs for every ONE Dark Knight Carve and Split; adding that all FCs have a far superior net potency thanks to maim + Deliverance + 50 extra skill potency.

While also leaving out the fact that DRK can fit in a lot of DA+SEs during that time inbetween. I don't know about you, but when I'm not worrying about my horrible TP issues as DRK (which do need to be addressed, but once again, another problem entirely), I can pump out a lot of damage. Also DRK, train wreck, not worth these comparisons, etc.

This kind of burst capability on a warrior is just dumb. The fact that it plays into how this game actually plays is just overpowered. You are far better off with a class in this game that can sustain 600 DPS and burst up to 1300DPS for a few seconds every minute or so than you will ever be off with a class that can sustain 800DPS and have no burst.

...DRK actually has some pretty potent burst of its own. In fights with enough downtime where TP isn't an issue (see: Lucrezia's speedrun of Ravana Ex), DRK can actually keep up with WAR quite nicely. Granted, these situations don't pop up as often as would be ideal, but for a class that already has a huge amount of glaring flaws, you're looking for problems where there aren't any.

I mean you could remove the recast on Carve and Split, put it on the GCD and people would step back and cry foul at how powerful it is. Yet that STILL wouldn't match what Warriors are able to dish out with Fell Cleave. That is how broken it is not having FC on a recast.

DRK already kind of has that with Soul Eater. A healing version of that. It's actually surprisingly good. Once again, looking for problems where there aren't any, which is an impressive feat, since DRK is a minefield of them.

[Alphras]

Oh come on. You can pop off THREE Fell Cleaves under Berserk every 90 seconds and it takes you all of 20 seconds to re-build Abandon and fire off another FC.

To put that in perspective, you basically get three full powered FCs + 3 regular FCs for every ONE Dark Knight Carve and Split; adding that all FCs have a far superior net potency thanks to maim + Deliverance + 50 extra skill potency.

This kind of burst capability on a warrior is just dumb. The fact that it plays into how this game is designed is just overpowered. You are far better off with a class in this game that can sustain 600 DPS and burst up to 1300DPS for a few seconds every minute or so than you will ever be off with a class that can sustain 800DPS and have no burst.

I mean you could remove the recast on Carve and Split, put it on the GCD and people would step back and cry foul at how powerful it is. Yet that STILL wouldn't match what Warriors are able to dish out with Fell Cleave. That is how broken it is not having FC on a recast.

Why do you even compare Fell Cleave to Carve and Split? Soul Eater would be the more obvious choice here.

And no, a WAR cannot do 6 Fell Cleaves every 60s. Don't know where you are pulling that from.

[Kiteless]

And no, a WAR cannot do 6 Fell Cleaves every 60s. Don't know where you are pulling that from.

A man can dream though.

[Comrade_uri]

Lol so much butt hurt in this thread.

You do know the 3 cleave rotation involves an all str acc set to have the pay off needed to balence the fact your popping cool downs you don't need to use just to beat the timer to get the third cleave in right?
Also with that str acc set up your hp ain't exactly amazing. WAR is fine and don't worry, your little holier then thou PLD is still the MT of choice, no need to cry


DRK though... I don't know if they tried master of none good at everything with it or what but I haven't really used it. Better off talking to the others who main DRK as I hear some impressive stories coming out of that end.

[Ladon]

Why do you even compare Fell Cleave to Carve and Split? Soul Eater would be the more obvious choice here.

And no, a WAR cannot do 6 Fell Cleaves every 60s. Don't know where you are pulling that from.

Because Soul Eater is at the end of a combo. It isn't a burst skill and isn't an additional skill off of a combo chain like FC and C&S are. And if you want to get technical the effective potency of Soul Eater is 460 to Butcher Blocks 378 which is a much smaller gap than Fell Cleaves effective 675 potency to 518 potency of Carve and Split so the sustained damage is practically the same and we all know that DRKs can't sustain that type of damage for long before MP becomes and issue let alone the TP issues; both which Warriors don't have to deal with. And if you want to talk about the burst capabilities in say a 30 second timeframe, DRKs aren't even touching what Warriors are pushing out now.

Also if we were going to take Carve and Split off it's cooldown it would basically function like FC. That is a DRK will be able to push out 3 DA-C&S back to back and then will need about 20 seconds to get the mana back for another DA just like a warrior needs to rebuild wrath. And that of course leaves nothing to DA Soul Eater with meaning the Warrior is still pushing out higher potency combos than the DRK while the two of them rebuild their resource.

And yeah I guess you can only get 5 FCs in a minute. 60 seconds with Vengeance up, 62.5 seconds if it's down. This is with standard GCD of course:

FC -> Vengeance + Raw Intuition + 4(5) GCs for 3(4) more wrath (10 sec/12.5 sec) -> FC (2.5 sec) -> Infuriate -> FC (2.5 sec) -> Wrath rebuild + FC (22.5 sec) -> Wrath rebuild + FC (22.5 sec)

But really, all I am doing here is putting a lot of words to what the parsing already shows.

[Alphras]

You are starting with 5 stacks and you use two defensive cooldowns for that? Have fun tanking savage. Also that is no rotation, that is an opener.

Edit: What parsing shows? Parsing shows that every compentent DRK will compete with a WAR until their TP runs dry if they are on the same target with the same gear. How that translates into real fights? Don't know. Up until today there haven't been any real fights in the game.