Bard and how to fix it.

[sucht]

I'd rather they gave bard a melee's limitation... Which is to say no cast bar, but having to be within melee range of the mob to get the damage bonus.

a "Range DPS" with Melee limitations?
i think that would be stupid because we are still talking about a "RANGED" class/job(archer/bard).
if they would consider this then they should consider to remove the class/job from the game.

question:
after reading the internet and this forum, i came to the conclusion, that it had mobility with the downside of not doing as much DPS as other classes/jobs and that was OK for most of the people, so what would be the problem for "Square"? (they are the ones who made the class/job in the first place)

i am really interested in this because it is the class/job i picked not so long ago, so i can have "fun" playing this cool game.


again sorry for my english.

[Snowaeth]

a "Range DPS" with Melee limitations?
i think that would be stupid because we are still talking about a "RANGED" class/job(archer/bard).
if they would consider this then they should consider to remove the class/job from the game.

question:
after reading the internet and this forum, i came to the conclusion, that it had mobility with the downside of not doing as much DPS as other classes/jobs and that was OK for most of the people, so what would be the problem for "Square"? (they are the ones who made the class/job in the first place)

i am really interested in this because it is the class/job i picked not so long ago, so i can have "fun" playing this cool game.


again sorry for my english.

I've played BRD in melee range before when we were doing runs with 3-4 ranged and it feels much less restricting than the bow wizard that we have now.
It's the usual bard playstyle just packed into a smaller space, but it doesn't break the bard skill flow unlike the cast-bars do.

I do agree that if SE would implement melee restrictions that it should be as someone else mentioned earlier.
Rather have bard do less dmg the further away they are than no dmg at all if out of melee.

As for what SE's problem is with the old bard, I can only assume here, but my bet is they'r having a hard time balancing mechanics around a class that can keep moving without loosing their rotation without nerfing the class into the ground.

[Syll]

I've played BRD in melee range before when we were doing runs with 3-4 ranged and it feels much less restricting than the bow wizard that we have now.
It's the usual bard playstyle just packed into a smaller space, but it doesn't break the bard skill flow unlike the cast-bars do.

I do agree that if SE would implement melee restrictions that it should be as someone else mentioned earlier.
Rather have bard do less dmg the further away they are than no dmg at all if out of melee.

As for what SE's problem is with the old bard, I can only assume here, but my bet is they'r having a hard time balancing mechanics around a class that can keep moving without loosing their rotation without nerfing the class into the ground.

I was suggesting that it get the +30% damage while in melee range, and lose it out of melee range;

to Sucht: As Snowaeth says, its SE's attempt at balancing mechanics around a mobile, ranged class. Given the choice I would rather lose the ranged component, than the mobile one.

Of course something that did neither would be better still; but being mobile and ranged is what most detractors level at bard for why they must be penalized.

[sucht]

I've played BRD in melee range before when we were doing runs with 3-4 ranged and it feels much less restricting than the bow wizard that we have now.
It's the usual bard playstyle just packed into a smaller space, but it doesn't break the bard skill flow unlike the cast-bars do.

I do agree that if SE would implement melee restrictions that it should be as someone else mentioned earlier.
Rather have bard do less dmg the further away they are than no dmg at all if out of melee.

As for what SE's problem is with the old bard, I can only assume here, but my bet is they'r having a hard time balancing mechanics around a class that can keep moving without loosing their rotation without nerfing the class into the ground.

I was suggesting that it get the +30% damage while in melee range, and lose it out of melee range;

to Sucht: As Snowaeth says, its SE's attempt at balancing mechanics around a mobile, ranged class. Given the choice I would rather lose the ranged component, than the mobile one.

Of course something that did neither would be better still; but being mobile and ranged is what most detractors level at bard for why they must be penalized.

thank you for your answer, and trying to explain it.

i was just asking because it seemed hilarious to be a "Ranged DPS" that fights in Melee Range, at least that's what i thought reading thru all the stuff people wrote.
so as i understand, later on in the Game (raids/dungeons/etc.) there are fights where you are fighting in Melee range anyway.

and this "was suggesting that it get the +30% damage while in melee range, and lose it out of melee range;" i understand better now


again my English is not perfect, but i'm learning so i read the English forum exclusively and also try to write in it.

again thank you Snowaeth and Syll, and sorry for my English.

[Warlyx]

is the design of some encounters why we have WM , a class that can move and keep dpsing full throttle ....is a problem no doubt.

But here we are and WM isnt going away im afraid , so now we need to focus on making WM rotation more fun , and less frustrating....starting with BL/RoD procs.

[Sen_Terrechant]

is the design of some encounters why we have WM , a class that can move and keep dpsing full throttle ....is a problem no doubt.

But here we are and WM isnt going away im afraid , so now we need to focus on making WM rotation more fun , and less frustrating....starting with BL/RoD procs.

With all the mechanics in this game that we have seen thus far, AND the current GCD of 2.5 seconds your 1.5 second cast times are almost nothing to work around. You can pretty much still move and DPS full throttle if you actually pay attention to the fight and mechanics.

Keep in mind good BLM i the past have been able to DPS almost full throttle on heavy movement fights and they still managed that with 3-4 second cast times.

[Warlyx]

With all the mechanics in this game that we have seen thus far, AND the current GCD of 2.5 seconds your 1.5 second cast times are almost nothing to work around. You can pretty much still move and DPS full throttle if you actually pay attention to the fight and mechanics.

Keep in mind good BLM i the past have been able to DPS almost full throttle on heavy movement fights and they still managed that with 3-4 second cast times.

Skill speed exist u know , and if u played BRD u will notice that this 1s is barely noticiable , u are chain casting non stop....even then 1s let u move what? half sidestep atmost

BLM have instant casts (scathe) and procs that make their nuke instant (firestarter) , or thundercloud , and on top of that swiftcast ...and if they know the boss like the brd, they will use sharpcast (1m CD) to get a guarenteed proc....and keep the rotation going.....i would love to get blm potency attacks too btw

Nah Brd need to have low dmg by default , low movility because hey not fun allowed....that songs are so awesomeeeee to have outside relevant content....hey i even play foe while im solo...........nah just kidding.

[Snowaeth]

Skill speed exist u know , and if u played BRD u will notice that this 1s is barely noticiable , u are chain casting non stop....even then 1s let u move what? half sidestep atmost

BLM have instant casts (scathe) and procs that make their nuke instant (firestarter) , or thundercloud , and on top of that swiftcast ...and if they know the boss like the brd, they will use sharpcast (1m CD) to get a guarenteed proc....and keep the rotation going.....i would love to get blm potency attacks too btw

Nah Brd need to have low dmg by default , low movility because hey not fun allowed....that songs are so awesomeeeee to have outside relevant content....hey i even play foe while im solo...........nah just kidding.

Those people comparing bard to BLM always forget that the BLM kit was designed and balanced for that gameplay, where the bard one wasn't.
Then the new favorite argument of those people now is to point at high bard parses and telling bards, "look the bards do good damage now everything is fine".

Well let me explain how that logic works.
Lets introduce a new class to the game and name it Kick-boxer.
The Kick-boxer job has 30 abilities that you can use, most of them come with 5seconds cast and 500 potency.
The Kick-boxer however has a stance that increases the potency of their auto-attacks by 500% and increases their auto-attack speed by 50% making it deal about the same dps as a well played monk, by only using auto-attacks.

Now the Kick-boxer can not auto-attack while casting their abilities, but because their auto-attacks are so potent they don't need to use their abilities anyway, because they deal the same dmg as well played monks by just using auto-attacks.

According to the logic of these people this Kick-boxer class is totally fine because: it doesn't matter how it plays and that it can't use any of its abilities, because it parses the same as a well played monk without using any abilities.
So it doesn't matter that the class is not enjoyable and the abilities are unusable, because once again, it parses the same as a well played top dps.

So yeah I am getting somewhat tired of those people telling how bards should feel about their class even though they don't play bard themselves.
Or pointing at some bards parsing high (heck I can parse solid numbers on bard myself, it doesn't mean bard is fine, it only means they covered the flaws by higher potency).

And I'm not even complaining about playstyle change here, which is a whole different topic.
I am complaining about the issues with bard skills when WM is active.

[Snowaeth]

I wasn't thinking of this before as I was focusing on the gameplay part of WM.
But as people pointed out, the animations are another thing that are pretty horribly implemented with WM and should deserve some attention too.

[RyuDragnier]

Currently at level 54 BRD. Don't see a problem with WM yet, not even for the big dodge moments...though that may be because I actually TURN OFF WM for those moments and turn it back on when I don't need to move anymore (such as when I have to run with the comets at Sohm Al's last boss).