I chose BRD for swift gameplay, if I wanted to cast I would have chosen a Mage.

[Belhi]

Dragoon, eh?

Let's improve your damage by 30%, but let's make you a ranged job. You also can't use Jump anymore. You'll also be wearing cloth armor and throwing pellets instead of using a lance.

Just a bit of a change to the mechanics you are used to.. and some visual changes. No big deal. Learn to play.

While I don't have a core issue with the argument many like you have which is simply "I don't like the change", your post here is just downright silly. WM doesn't change BRD anywhere close to what your suggesting here. It makes it stationary and gives it a cast time and it is a form you can leave and enter instantly. If WM changed it as much as you suggested you would need to play BRD in Plate, with a spear, in melee range and have to deal with positionals.

Secondly, DRG did have pretty major mechanical changes and in some ways they are as big as WM. The Blood of the Dragon mechanic gave them a bunch of MNK like mechanics, including the need to sustain a buff using complete combos and positionals.

BRDs haven't had it harder when it comes to mastering or dealing with the change, particularly in how it impacts fight mechanics.

The only valid issue at this point with WM is really that some people don't like it. That's a perfectly valid issue. I don't think its enough people to trigger a change though. I've been seeing people in game who have actually started to enjoy it.

[Nestama]

Just a bit of a change to the mechanics you are used to.. and some visual changes. No big deal. Learn to play.

No, that's changing a Job completely (making DRG go from being a close combat DPS to a ranged DPS is a HUGE change in gameplay compared to WM). Wanderer's Minuet doesn't change BRD at all. You still have more mobility than the other ranged classes (MCH aside, though that's a Job I haven't touched yet) and you have the ability to turn the buff off when a fight becomes too movement heavy. All WM does it make you stay in one place for a short while to do a weaponskill.

[Kat_Manx]

People don't really seem to get that some scenarios I invent are over the top on purpose.. you know, to get the point across.

Also.. maybe the changes don't seem that huge to some people, but to some other people, it's a really big deal. I mean, just take a look on all the posts on this forum.

When starting out FFXIV, I made a test character for every single class and tested out their abilities for a few levels. Some were boring, some less boring, but just not right. Archer happened to be the last thing I tried, and while it seemed sort of lame at first, due to a complete accident, I happened to press an attack while moving.. and it worked! Instantly, that made it the best class ever, and I never looked back.

Now I don't even want to level anymore.

How it used to work.. that just was my thing.

[Nestama]

Getting a point across works better when you make realistic changes. Take Black Mage, for example. In 2.0, we were the second easiest Job to play. Our rotation was a simple Thunder II > Fire III > Fire > (Fire III/Thunder III if proc'd) > Blizzard III > Blizzard > Repeat.

Now? Enochian > Fire III (or Sharpcast Fire. Either or) > Fire IV > Fire IV > Fire > Fire IV > Fire IV > (Fire III if proc'd) > Blizzard III > Blizzard/Blizzard IV > Fire III (Ley Lines, the AoE magnet, allows us to use Fire IV three times, though it risks Astral falling off, which is very bad). We can't use Thunder at all as that will ruin our rotation and as simple as that layout looks, moving at all breaks the rotation completely and makes it prone to messing up MP consumption (moving means you have to cast Fire when you can). We can barely fit any oGCD abilities during a Fire IV phase, as that can also mess up out rotation.

If Enochian wears off due to one thing or another, we have to go back to our simple level 50 rotation, which is somewhat of a DPS loss.

[Fyce]

[...] How it used to work.. that just was my thing.

You don't actually have to move each time you use an ability.
What if you need to? Then turn WM off, if wasn't meant to be used during movement heavy phases anyway.

[UBERHAXED]

Secondly, DRG did have pretty major mechanical changes and in some ways they are as big as WM. The Blood of the Dragon mechanic gave them a bunch of MNK like mechanics, including the need to sustain a buff using complete combos and positionals.

Actually they gave them back the mechanics they took away from dragoon :x. Dragoon had had a much more punishing positional system than monk before and they changed it so it didn't affect comboes or buffs applications anymore, unlike monk, who just has potency changes.

I happened to press an attack while moving.. and it worked! Instantly, that made it the best class ever, and I never looked back.

Now I don't even want to level anymore.

How it used to work.. that just was my thing.

Kind of like all the melee??? Except they had to move while attacking to get to the next position.

[sucht]

i really don't get it, why should a "Ranged DPS" go Melee when he is in a group?
a Archer is a "Ranged DPS" first and foremost and not a "Melee DPS" and has "high mobility", a Archer/Bowman in "RL" can jump or sprint and still shoot the apple from the head with enough training.
and a Bard in Games is someone in the "Back" who provides his Songs to help get the "Party going Strong", and also shoots his arrows at the Foe from a distance.
and this running around thing i also don't get, i never once saw a archer running around like a headless chicken.
i bet that most archers/bards here in this game stand still and concentrate to get out the best DPS possible and buff the party or de-buff the boss/mob, and only move to get out of AOE's.(i am just a LvL27 beginner and know not much, but that's what i do/will do)

i don't know maybe i misread or misunderstand because English is not my native language, and if that's the case then i'm sorry.

just my two cents again.

oh and William Shakespeare was known as a Bard or the Bard of Avon.

[Hyrist]

Dragoon, eh?

Let's improve your damage by 30%, but let's make you a ranged job. You also can't use Jump anymore. You'll also be wearing cloth armor and throwing pellets instead of using a lance.

Just a bit of a change to the mechanics you are used to.. and some visual changes. No big deal. Learn to play.

This misses the point completely and weighed in Hyperbole to boot. It's not even an equivalent exchange.

Yes, Dragoon. Also, SMN, Also, Bard. I'm an alt-a-holic. Good job though trying to convince me that the Job that I PLAY Is fundamentally broken.

Dragoon did change. Twice. One was a pull away from positional with no stance work, then a reintroduction of positional plus stance maintenance, and the positional are randomized. We also have a skill that directly counteracts our maintenance. Our class has fundamentally changed even though our role has not.

Bard? Still about Debuff Maintenance and proc-usage. Except you have the added skill-check of balancing a buff stance. The skills overall effect on the gameplay of the class is moot to Bards who already had used minimalist motions.

And you know what's worse about all this hyperbole? There's not a single note of intellectual development being made on behalf of the complainers. It's all justification on why this patch is bad and developers should feel bad. Nothing on the level of understanding the propose for the change and thinking of a possible update or compromise. Just straight complaining. That, more than anything, has me livid.

My reaction and posts as a Bard: The concept is good but the execution needs a bit more leeway with it (maybe a smaller charge time, or better scaling on charge with skillspeed - those are my personal suggestions). The idea of working with a stance is obviously unpopular with the vocal minority, but as far as my speculation as to why - they're equating 'mage' to the term instead of what was the intended take away from stance, at least in my speculation of the concept. This concept is easily summarized in two words:

Megabuster Stance.

This is effectively what the system is, except it forces the charge immediately before firing and animation locks. In a 2D Platformer this would be interesting, but occasionally frustrating, and would get neglected in specific fights, and used the full effect by the best players. In the stance of an MMO it makes sense because we're dealing with a global cooldown. But of course those who can't tolerate a minor gameplay change (That's what it is, you're saying different at 53 then you're really not playing through it) started crying without thinking it through.

As I said before, you can choose not to play if you wish, but you are not getting rid of Wanderer's Minute.

As far as improving it to allow for more work towards the gameplay people desire - a suggested compromise for both Ranged DPS.

Instead of the skill being a set stance with a 15 second timer - Have it be an off-cooldown skill with cast time with next to no-recast timer. Each time the skill is used, it shuts off auto-attack in trade for a 30 percent damage buff on the next skill. Also, when the buff is up, it unlocks the skills Minuet/Gauss currently unlocks.

Effectively, those who are maxing DPS will experience little gameplay change from what is current. But the option to use it on the fly better accentuates the ideal behind these skills. I personally do not feel this change is needed. But among those decrying the stance I'm in the opposing camp. I've adapted and enjoy the changes to Bard. However this is perhaps because I do not peg my gameplay on a singular class, character, or patch.

Again, I staunchly disagree that this class was in any way ruined. The skill is optional - even if it is potent. And the gameplay components on it is reminiscent of nostalgic elements for me, and has not actually been a severe harm to my gameplay. I cannot, in any way, shape, or form sympathize with the opponents in this. There's been no noticeable constructive feedback and the vast majority of arguments here have been hyperbolic at best.

[VirusChris]

Sheesh this topic is going on for a long time now! XD

My BRD is still sitting at level 50 as my main is Ninja but I don't like BRD because I could move around as much as I want and fire but usually I don't move around that much unless I have to. Who knows? Maybe I'll be fine with WM for a bit when I hit 52 but I'll wait until I hit 60 on my BRD to see what my opinion on it is.


Anyway what are the Japanese players saying about WM? Anyone translated what they said about it? I recall someone mention that Japanese BRDs were more vocal on their hate for WM on BRD more so than the US, but I'm not sure. Like to see what they're actually saying.

[Duelle]

Dragoon did change. Twice. One was a pull away from positional with no stance work, then a reintroduction of positional plus stance maintenance, and the positional are randomized. We also have a skill that directly counteracts our maintenance. Our class has fundamentally changed even though our role has not.

Your rotation and overall gameplay remain the same. DRG didn't just suddenly have the bulk of how they did things thrown out the window when they got Blood of the Dragon. The change was along the lines of making it fit in with the other stuff you already did. I can say the same thing for PLD, where Shelltron, Goring Blade and Royal Authority didn't change how I play and instead left me to figure out when to use them in my existing gameplay while also keeping that same gameplay generally intact.

And you know what's worse about all this hyperbole? There's not a single note of intellectual development being made on behalf of the complainers. It's all justification on why this patch is bad and developers should feel bad. Nothing on the level of understanding the propose for the change and thinking of a possible update or compromise. Just straight complaining. That, more than anything, has me livid.

You've convinced yourself people who aren't happy with WM are wrong so you probably will ignore this, but there's a thread on the DPS forums that is basically about suggestions and QoL changes.

As far as compromise, there's little room for it with the way WM was implemented. The first step requires something that under other circumstance is called a notable change.

My reaction and posts as a Bard: The concept is good but the execution needs a bit more leeway with it (maybe a smaller charge time, or better scaling on charge with skillspeed - those are my personal suggestions).

I'd aim more for the procs. The way WM doesn't play nicely with procs is part of what makes WM feel so jarring. Then I'd change the number of skills affected by WM. It just doesn't make sense to have it affect almost every shot.

Megabuster Stance.

As I've said elsewhere, this would only apply if WM's cast bars filled up while moving, with the bars filling at a slower pace when running and filling faster while standing still.

Instead of the skill being a set stance with a 15 second timer - Have it be an off-cooldown skill with cast time with next to no-recast timer. Each time the skill is used, it shuts off auto-attack in trade for a 30 percent damage buff on the next skill. Also, when the buff is up, it unlocks the skills Minuet/Gauss currently unlocks.

Good suggestion. Now go post it on the thread I linked above.

Again, I staunchly disagree that this class was in any way ruined. The skill is optional - even if it is potent.

Increases to DPS are not optional (because by this logic, all the new systems added to DPS jobs are optional). Optional would be if it kept BRD DPS relatively the same but allowing for a different playstyle (maybe more emphasis on burst while ARR BRD was largely sustained damage).