Alexander Savage: The raid that killed the ability to help your friends clear

[Nixxa]

I gather from your join date that you're probably a bit new to the game.
This is how all of the 'hardcore' raids have worked on release.

Edit: If you're taking 'randoms' with you you're not likely to clear at all.

Well not quite, the penalty is actually fairly new...If my memory serves it was introduced in FCOB. Previously once you completed or skipped a turn in BCOB/SCOB you could not go back to clear or help others period, you were fully locked out of that floor until the next week. This made it so you generally could not help others period as you could risk getting locked out of a floor or clear it before your static and end up not being able to run that floor with them. I like this system as it allows me to help people learn/clear content where I otherwise would have been able to do nothing but give emotional support and some nuggets of info here and there, but I also think the penalty should have been enacted from 2 members who have cleared onwards. The current system was set up so that people couldn't sell the runs while the content was still relevant, but as it stands now a group generally doesn't want someone who has already cleared for that content as you have to suffer a 50% reduction in loot for bringing them along.

When my raid groups would do content, whether learning or farming we would not want someone that had already cleared for the week, period. If we were learning a turn we didn't want to risk actually clearing it with them and losing the loot, if we had it on farm we weren't about to take a penalty for no reason. In the end one person can make a great teacher, but you can't carry 7 others yourself so the penalty does more harm than good in that sense. I would prefer that bringing one person who cleared would incur no penalty outside of maybe preventing that player from rolling on gear, while from 2 members onward the current penalties would be appropriate. This would promote having a little helping hand from someone that cleared to help a group learn without stiffly penalizing the group for their presence.

[Eidolon]

When my raid groups would do content, whether learning or farming we would not want someone that had already cleared for the week, period. If we were learning a turn we didn't want to risk actually clearing it with them and losing the loot, if we had it on farm we weren't about to take a penalty for no reason.

I always found this logic rediculous and silly. I've met so many people that, when I offer to help, their answer isn't "Sure, come help us out!" It's "Have you cleared this week?"

It's absolutely stupid, because the people I see would rather take no loot than getting even one chest. This is the part where I shake my head. The people I met literally chose NO loot over getting a piece of loot for their static. Tell me, where is the logic in that? Why would you choose nothing over something? Just because otherwise you -MIGHT- get a clear and get 2 pieces instead?

*Shakes his head* Honestly. People need to learn that this system is perfect for what it's intended - making sure you dont' help other groups farm, but allowing those who want to be helped, to be helped.

Edit in: I don't refer to you, specifically. I had a group that would sometimes sub me in to help them out. I helped them get their first clear with 2 chests via a friend's character. But they seemed to always struggle if I wasn't there. I'm a very good raid caller/lead and am also a very potent healer and can find weaknesses in teams. I'm good at what I do and compensating for other people. This group specifically made me roll my eyes, because sunday after a week of trying on T11 they still hadn't cleared, and STILL refused my help.

[seida]

People truly complain about everything.

Before, once you cleared for the week you couldn't go back in AT ALL. Not to try and get loot again, not to even help other people. You cleared once, you were locked out.

So the new system is massively helpful in comparison.

[Nixxa]

I always found this logic rediculous and silly. I've met so many people that, when I offer to help, their answer isn't "Sure, come help us out!" It's "Have you cleared this week?"

True, I was never a fan of this notion myself, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a mindset adopted by most. :/ It's this reason specifically why I would have preferred enacting the penalty from 2 players onwards, while a single experienced player can afford a group more wiggle room and help teach mechanics to new players, people rarely used the future for fear of taking a 50% hit to drops on a dungeon with a 1 week lockout. That is a stiff price to charge a group for allowing them to receive a helping hand from someone, and diminishes the purpose of the system in place, which is to promote people helping others. The current system is great as it at least lets me enter again if needed, assuming the group is desperate for a hand, but the penalty for a single person could due with being eased slightly, otherwise the beauty of this feature goes relatively unused.

People truly complain about everything.

Before, once you cleared for the week you couldn't go back in AT ALL. Not to try and get loot again, not to even help other people. You cleared once, you were locked out.

So the new system is massively helpful in comparison.

I'm not complaining per say, I was there in BCOB and SCOB always wishing I could help my FC members and friends learn/progress through content, but I could never do it for the risk of being locked out for the week and screwing my raid group. I know from experience how much of an improvement this system is, but just because a system is implemented does not mean there is no room for changes or improvement. This system is a godsend from the old system to be sure, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still used relatively little because of the stiff penalties imposed upon a group for accepting help from others.

[Sapphic]

Also means if your static is down one for a run you can get a replacement and then redo the turn to get the player which missed that day their drop. As opposed to either missing that nights raiding or the player unable to attend (emergencies happen) misses out for chance of a drop that week.

Win-win.

Edit in: I don't refer to you, specifically. I had a group that would sometimes sub me in to help them out. I helped them get their first clear with 2 chests via a friend's character.

So you are admitting to account sharing on the forums which is against the EULA.

Smart...

[SarcasmMisser]

This lockout sucks because I just want to see the story!

They added a story mode

This lockout sucks because I can't help my friends!

They allowed you to help for no reward.

At the end of the day people really are dog-whistling for a carry, until they can get a carry they will find something else to demand as a proxy and if you really are that gift to gaming that is on call to help people clear it's conspicuous that there's no static for you to join. For those that are more honest with what they want, with the token system everyone should have full sets for their mains by a certain number of weeks so don't worry lots of people will be willing to help you for a nominal fee

[lordoftheapes79]

It's progression. Only the best raid groups will be clearing it to start. There hasn't really been any progression in the game for awhile, so if you started playing in the last 6 months you're in for a bit of culture shock here. Having gone through all the coil as it came out, I can tell you, if you don't have a static it may take you a few weeks before you clear a1s.

[Elim]

People are encouraged to bring those who haven't cleared, which means more people get a chance at loot. And, if someone simply can't clear, those who have cleared are still able to help them through. It's win-win. A good system, if you ask me.

[Catwho]

Previously, NO ONE could replay a turn, so if you had a real life emergency and your static found a substitute, you were screwed for the week.

This was their solution. If your static group really cares about you, they'll rerun the content to catch you up.

[DracotheDragon]

you new here so

from 2.0 until 2.4 the norm was if you cleared one you COULDNT GO BACK AT ALL, whats that you beat turn 3 and joined a static thats on turn 2 well you got to wait for them or find a new group, oh cleared t5 but a friend wants help HA, he hasn't cleared it so you can't help him :P

in 2.4 they added it in where people who have beaten the content can go back and help but to prevent farming or buying parties they limited the amount of gear you could get a fair trade-off it helps learning parties and if they clear well they got there clear its a win win :3