Fending vs. Slaying accessories at this point in the game

[dragoelete]

That is not how raids work. Because fights are scripted the healers will know exactly when to have you topped off & when they can leave your HP to regen/selene. Their strongest abilities are also DoT & can be cast during the cool down time of Cleric Stance, so they do not need to worry about staying in it for long periods of time. A healer who can't handle stance dancing should not be worried about DPS, because they just aren't good enough to take on that responsibility.

that would be fine but every once in a while when i am healing i always seem to run into that tank that's using full str "because everyone says its better" ... and then never using there defensive cool downs when they should. (like when a tank buster is incoming or when they gather 5 groups of adds... when i see that stuff it makes me want to cry) at which point i don't even have enough time to heal them by the time my cleric stance comes off cool down.

[Phoenicia]

I know we're discussing this game but in a lot of games stacking what would be rng stats is actually the best way to gear a class. Anyone looking at the blanket statement "rng = bad" without a shred of proof is going to instantly look to experience in other similar games which will show the blanket statement is false. Now it's certainly possible that in this particular game, those stats are mathematically inferior, but that's not because they're rng but because their implementation would be weaker than some other alternative.

I was strictly talking about this game. But if you read my other posts you will see I stated things why other games had good reasons (mainly the returns) why RNG was more useful and not a measly chance for a 20% damage reduction. Or ways to cover for the reliance on RNG.

Other games give far larger returns for the RNG or have an RNG hit table that can be "filled". For example WoW had both (to my knowledge that may has been changed). You could fill a full table of 100% (105% since bosses are higher level) chance to either be missed, dodge, parry or block. At the same time, miss, parry and dodge were 100% mitigation! Not 20%. These things add reliability to the RNG stats.

In this game, and in VERY good gear GEARED for parry you hardly get 30% max chance to parry. Block, CDs that use the RNG mechanics further reduce the value of these stats (sure crits and parry/block like Life Surge, Sheltron, Raw Intuition). The return is far too small in invest in when other stats give more solid and useful returns.

[Disc]

... and then never using there defensive cool downs when they should. (like when a tank buster is incoming or when they gather 5 groups of adds...

That is not an equipment issue. It is just a bad tank who does not use their CDs properly. Currently there is not a single fight in the game that cannot be comfortably tanked at i170 with full STR accessories & no food.

[repoe]

that would be fine but every once in a while when i am healing i always seem to run into that tank that's using full str "because everyone says its better" ... and then never using there defensive cool downs when they should. (like when a tank buster is incoming or when they gather 5 groups of adds... when i see that stuff it makes me want to cry) at which point i don't even have enough time to heal them by the time my cleric stance comes off cool down.

Im assuming your talking about alexander, If that is in DF, well that's juat DF Prime time Baddies at their best. If PF kick, if its your static tank they need a conversation advising of the issues that need to be corrected, if they can't improve or simply refuse. Find a new tank

[Zfz]

That is not an equipment issue. It is just a bad tank who does not use their CDs properly. Currently there is not a single fight in the game that cannot be comfortably tanked at i170 with full STR accessories & no food.

At ilv 170 with full STR accessories, you have about the same HP (or less?) as someone wearing full 150 NQ unmelded, i.e. less HP then the fresh 60 tank who's wearing full 145 HQ quest gear. For the PLD, that's about 14k HP.

Maybe in statics. But I doubt that would be a comfortable HP to have for the healers in DF parties or pugging in PF.

[Syzygian]

ACT sets parry around 20-25% in the average fight in HW. With a flat 20% damage reduction that's around 4-5% overall physical mitigation for an entire fight, this is without stacking parry but just using armor/weapons/accessories that have parry on them because we currently don't have a lot of options, just i180 Law and the i190 we can get only 2 weeks into Alex NM.

4-5% physical mitigation is like using Foresight, which is viewed as the absolute worst cool-down in the game. Block/Parry are useful for defending against "fluff" damage, I.E. auto attacks. FFXIV raiding content are scripted fights where danger comes from mechanics and tank busters, auto attacks are typically ignored as "fluff." We could argue that ANY form of mitigation is good mitigation and while I agree, you also have to view what you sacrifice for that mitigation.

A few things to note:
It was stated in the most recent live letter that they plan on bringing more magic mechanics to the game which makes parry even less valuable, not to mention you can't parry ranged attacks, I.E. the spider bots in Floor 2 Alex.

Block makes parry stacking even more worthless since they are mutually exclusive. If a Paladin has a 30% chance to block than every 1% of parry they gain is only worth 0.7%.

As far as VIT Vs. STR on accessories. VIT is not mitigation, if a tank gets hit for 5,000 damage then he/she needs to be healed for 5,000 regardless if they have 18k HP or 22k HP.

Boosting your HP means nothing if your healers ability to heal you remains constant. This is why Thrill of Battle, on its own, isn't a great CD, just because you gained 20% HP doesn't mean anything if your healer doesn't gain increased potency, thus we pop Convalescence with Thrill of Battle making it a mini Defiance.

Have we all forgotten early T13 progression where every possible CD save for maybe a Bloodbath had to be saved for Flattens/Breaths and later Akh Morns, leaving you nothing to pop in between whilst getting pelted by 1-2K autos? Lets not pretend healers didn't flat-out carry the MT from tank buster to tank buster in that fight. T13 is just one example but its the most relevant one to the argument everyone is using involving big tank busters and scripted mechanics. Without "useless" CDs like Foresight to stack with eachother (which is the way you should be using them) the "Fluff" damage adds up very quickly in any piece of relevant content with a boss that hits harder than a wet paper bag, to say nothing of fights like Ravana Ex where the contrary to conventional wisdom is true, and 90% of incoming tank damage is physical. DRK is a good example mechanically of a tank that operates outside of these cliches, where you have a magic only CD that isn't always useful but renders magic damage utter cake when applicable, and a large number of smaller potency CDs but with very short recast times designed to be stacked with one another and having a high degree of potential uptime through an encounter, as opposed to "push this one button and you're good for this tank buster... uhh... after that... i dunno. healers heal plox".

[dragoelete]

Have we all forgotten early T13 progression where every possible CD save for maybe a Bloodbath had to be saved for Flattens/Breaths and later Akh Morns, leaving you nothing to pop in between whilst getting pelted by 1-2K autos? Lets not pretend healers didn't flat-out carry the MT from tank buster to tank buster in that fight. T13 is just one example but its the most relevant one to the argument everyone is using involving big tank busters and scripted mechanics. Without "useless" CDs like Foresight to stack with eachother (which is the way you should be using them) the "Fluff" damage adds up very quickly in any piece of relevant content with a boss that hits harder than a wet paper bag, to say nothing of fights like Ravana Ex where the contrary to conventional wisdom is true, and 90% of incoming tank damage is physical. DRK is a good example mechanically of a tank that operates outside of these cliches, where you have a magic only CD that isn't always useful but renders magic damage utter cake when applicable, and a large number of smaller potency CDs but with very short recast times designed to be stacked with one another and having a high degree of potential uptime through an encounter, as opposed to "push this one button and you're good for this tank buster... uhh... after that... i dunno. healers heal plox".

i dunno about your first statement (i never did t13 yet haven't had the time to do so been trying to lvl all my chars first) but i was under the impression that before echo people use to use the tank LB3 for the tank busters in t13

[Disc]

At ilv 170 with full STR accessories, you have about the same HP (or less?) as someone wearing full 150 NQ unmelded, i.e. less HP then the fresh 60 tank who's wearing full 145 HQ quest gear. For the PLD, that's about 14k HP.

Maybe in statics. But I doubt that would be a comfortable HP to have for the healers in DF parties or pugging in PF.

And your point is?

[Zfz]

You feel perfectly comfortable but the healers in DF won't.

[sackm]

LB3 in T13 was used for Teraflare, not tank busters.