Fending vs. Slaying accessories at this point in the game

[Perzeval]

Show me the math. Link me the math. Tell me where to find the math. Everyplace I look to find ANY math that supports your claims on parry being worthless always lead me to some idiots thread about how crit/det/str are all better, and then a sane person comes in with actual math disputing it. At which point the OP turns it into a pissing contest and ignores the math. So.... Gimme math. Otherwise I will continue to value Accuracy -> Vitality -> Parry -> Everything Else and use my parry stat to deflect all you haters.

It's not math, it's common sense. Parry is only useful when there is a large amount of incoming hits, i.e. during mass pulls or for tank busters that are devided into many small hits, for example the first boss in fractal continuum.

In most cases however, tanking the autoattack damage from a single boss is considered fluff damage. No one cares if you parry an autoattack or heck, even two autoattacks in a row. The only time healers are paying attention to your well-being is with an actual tankbuster incoming, for example, T13's Flatten. But guess what, no veteran healer believes that you are going to parry that next big hit. They are going to use their strongest healing tools and top you off anyway, leading to overheal eventually if you actually parried the hit. As long as parry is purely RNG, no amount of stacking would lead to any efficient result. If you are talking about speedrunning any 4-man dungeon with large trash pulls however, I agree that parry is useful.

[Seshayn]

It's not math, it's common sense.

I'm sorry, but I feel my common sense has more common sense than your common sense. The healers I run with have actually gotten used to the fact that I am, and this is a quote from them, SO MUCH EASIER TO HEAL THAN EVERY OTHER GOD**** TANK, and the fact that the normal way of thinking seems to consider parry useless has actually started to infuriate every healer I have more than a casual passing relationship with. Feel free to continue feeding their quiet rage however. What is the worst that could happen? ^,...,^

[Phoenicia]

*snip*

I'm gonna quote myself from another "OMG PARRY" thread..

"I think people miss the point of why parry (and block) aren't that great for tanking and, therefore, should NOT be geared towards.

It is not that parry and/or block are bad per se, parry and block are welcome mitigation, when they happen. Yes, parry scales so slow and you need ridiculous amounts for the percentage to count. But the real problem, and the reason, parry and block are "bad" is that you cannot 100% rely on them to be there when you need them. The tanking meta in this game is "fluff damage" until the "tank buster" comes in.

Fluff damage can be mitigated in many ways and is easy to heal anyways and is where healers go in their DPS stances. Even tank self heals are enough sometimes. Tank busters are what matters because that is what is going to kill your tank. Relying on crossing your fingers for a parry (or block) to mitigate said tank busters is fool hardy and stupid."

[Seshayn]

I'm gonna quote myself from another "OMG PARRY" thread..

"I think people miss the point of why parry (and block) aren't that great for tanking and, therefore, should NOT be geared towards.

It is not that parry and/or block are bad per se, parry and block are welcome mitigation, when they happen. Yes, parry scales so slow and you need ridiculous amounts for the percentage to count. But the real problem, and the reason, parry and block are "bad" is that you cannot 100% rely on them to be there when you need them. The tanking meta in this game is "fluff damage" until the "tank buster" comes in.

Fluff damage can be mitigated in many ways and is easy to heal anyways and is where healers go in their DPS stances. Even tank self heals are enough sometimes. Tank busters are what matters because that is what is going to kill your tank. Relying on crossing your fingers for a parry (or block) to mitigate said tank busters is fool hardy and stupid."

So essentially, you are saying all forms of mitigation aside from guaranteed mitigation are trash. That unless you have a 100% chance to do something or a flat % reduction to something, it's worthless. This is what you're saying. I guess valuing avoidance stats makes me too old school to be cool. I'm good with that.

I don't RELY on parry. I don't sit there before a tank buster, sacrifice a goat and pray to the 12 that I get that clutch parry. I have it so that it CAN work. Have you ever heard of someone who didn't work for you doing a good job as your employee?

Gotta buy a ticket to win the lottery little lady.

[Kiteless]

So essentially, you are saying all forms of mitigation aside from guaranteed mitigation are trash. That unless you have a 100% chance to do something or a flat % reduction to something, it's worthless.

Yes.

Certainty is important for high end content. Certainty is the difference between life and death 10 minutes into a hard raid boss.

[Yorumi]

Yes.

Certainty is important for high end content. Certainty is the difference between life and death 10 minutes into a hard raid boss.

This isn't what is being argued though. No one is suggesting trading certainty for uncertainty. Given enough trials a random event can be reduced to certainties. Math will show, over the course of a long fight parry, though random, will produce a guaranteed average x% mitigation. That can't be factoring into what an individual attack will do, but can be a consideration over an entire fight.

The biggest problem is so many are basically saying "we don't need proof, just trust us parry sucks and don't question it." That's a very good way to overlook things. Since tanks who are willing to invest in it have a choice in their stats in melded accessories I think it's worth knowing how all the stats interact so we can make the most informed decisions possible.

[Seshayn]

Yes.

Certainty is important for high end content. Certainty is the difference between life and death 10 minutes into a hard raid boss.

You are so wrong. If you have any certainty in a real raid encounter 10 minutes in, you're either getting carried or not doing it before it was cool (aka overgearing it/post-nerf)

[Phoenicia]

You are so wrong. If you have any certainty in a real raid encounter 10 minutes in, you're either getting carried or not doing it before it was cool (aka overgearing it/post-nerf)

Certainty here meaning: "Will I take AT LEAST 20% less damage" vs "Hmm, will that 20% even happen?".

Popping Rampart/IB/Shadowskin is 100% chance of the first happening. That's certainty. Praying for a parry to happen.... That's uncertainty.

Now if you are popping a CD and healer(s) knows you're eating a buster and hence pre-casting big heals, you should be topped before the damage shows on your par. (Certainty)

If you are not popping a CD and praying for parry every time a buster is on its way. You either: 1) Lucky and survive because you parried. 2) Have stellar healers that prepped Stoneskin, Adlo, Virus, what-have-you and you survived. 3) You die or come very close to dying because none of the above happened. UNcertainties.

Now a parry happening on top of CD? Sure, but based on the very first scenario above, any damage parry/block reduce is translated into overhealing.

[Phoenicia]

So essentially, you are saying all forms of mitigation aside from guaranteed mitigation are trash. That unless you have a 100% chance to do something or a flat % reduction to something, it's worthless. This is what you're saying. I guess valuing avoidance stats makes me too old school to be cool. I'm good with that.

I don't RELY on parry. I don't sit there before a tank buster, sacrifice a goat and pray to the 12 that I get that clutch parry. I have it so that it CAN work. Have you ever heard of someone who didn't work for you doing a good job as your employee?

Gotta buy a ticket to win the lottery little lady.

With a half decent healer that's worth more than a grain of salt, ANY damage you parry/block from a tank buster is just overhealing. Since in this meta, just like how tanks need to pop a CD for tank busters, healers need to pre-cast heals on said moves. You parry 20% from a 7k attack? Guess what? one of your two healers is probably doing at least 20% overhealing.

Avoidance is all nice and dandy... Except it doesn't exist in this game (Parry is not 100% damage reduction, it's only 20%. And you can't evade busters).

EDIT: I'm not undervaluing parry when it happens. I'm just saying gearing for it is hardly worth the effort. Even less when the return is not even noticeable.

[Disc]

So essentially, you are saying all forms of mitigation aside from guaranteed mitigation are trash.

The uninformed who stack parry will reduce total damage taken by 1-5% at most. Nobody cares about this because mp/healing is not as big an issue as DPS. It's considered useless for tank busters because you either survive them or you die, there is no in between. On the other hand, tanks who build for damage will be able to put out considerably more dps than parry builds. This makes them more valuable.

If you want to go out of your way to stack parry knowing this, that's on you. But it is a mediocre build.