Defending monks

[Ririndo]

In 2.x the monks were absolute kings. Now in 3.0 the other 2 melee classes were pushed so they can compete with monks.
Proof of this is that except for Elixier Field, monks didnt get anything that is actually pushing the dmg. All other skills are only meant to give monks something to do, when they cant attack and make the loss of GL3 not hurt so much. Sacrificing GL3 for TK, when boss becomes unattackable. Loading Chakra for FC/Puri whlie boss is unattackable and ofc our new best friend form shift.
This is not a complaint, hell thanks to Puri + invigorate, form shift and elixier field I was able to constant aoe in a2 and only being beaten bei a SMN (wich isnt really surprising)


Monks didnt need a dmg buff, sure at equal skill of the player a DRG can be stronger than a monk but we've seen it coming. DRG was GARBAGE in 2.x and now with DRG themed expansion they had to make the DRG much stronger and usefuler.

OP simply doesnt know one thing: the good players dont join a duty finder party. Good players rarely join DF solo because what do ppl usually do with the good ones? They befriend them and go on runs as a group. So its not a surprise that he never saw a DRG or Ninja beat him.

[Oboros]

Wait do monks do less than ninja now? It was my understanding and from what I've seen at least on dummy dps was DRG > MNK > NIN

[Dami]

The multi-posting is strong in this one.

As for the OP, I don't see what your point is. Whether they q.q or not doesn't change the fact that drg has more versatility and higher ST-DPS than monks. Namely, a combo with no positional requirement with high potency, 2 DoT GCDs with high potency, easier to maintain buffs such as heavy thrust or BoTD(goes up to 30secs) compared to GL3.

Without a shadow of doubt an equally skilled DRG will have no problem out-dpsing an equally skilled monk.

Wait do monks do less than ninja now? It was my understanding and from what I've seen at least on dummy dps was DRG > MNK > NIN

Pretty sure Ninjas and Monks deal roughly the same DPS now based on dummy parses. But ninjas rely less on positional except for a few skills so you can imagine them doing better in certain boss phases. But that's all I can go on based on experience since I haven't touched ninja yet.

[Oboros]

Yeah from what I've seen the diff is around 20-50 not that huge but monks do slightly more best nin parse I've seen was around 1170 while monks consistently hitting 1200 mark or close to it.

Also no love for ninja if monks get to complain why can't Nins who are arguably weaker xP.

[AldricBranchais]

Yeah I suck obviously .. I mean we can't all be super monks.

@AldricBranchais

DRG has... Battle Litany, and buffs BRD / MCH And top dps atm

Again, barely, and if played in perfect conditions.

NIN has Trick Attack, and Goad
And Dancing Edge, Trick attack also buffs the entire groups damage does it not ?
We have a WAR, so he doesn't really use DE iirc. Didn't think about it that much since... if you have a WAR in the PT the skill is barely used if ever.

MNK has Super Mantra< LOL , Dragon Kick.
Mantra is ok in a pinch when healing is getting over taxed which @ higher gear levels becomes less useful , Dragon Kick was good for the - int debuff but only buffs monks damage since iirc only titan egi does blunt dmg other than monk. Now you can just bring a DRK and fill monks spot with another dps.

So Mantra is useful for progression. Which is huge. Ever done T13 without echo? Or any encounter with a truckload of raid damage. Also yes, DK buffs MNKs, Ifrit (I think it does, I know -Slashing does too. :/), and Titan. Also Delirium doesn't invalidate a MNK's existence lol. Just lol.

And the DPS is pretty tied with Dragoon's edging out. Barely. We're fine
Granted i don't feel like monk is full on broken Its not on the same level as the other 2 melee dps.

wat? I don't know how you play your MNK, or what legendary NIN's you've run across but in my experience on EX Primals, PF, and Alexander farming NIN is not edging out MNK in anyway shape or form. We're barely ahead of them, and DRG's are barely ahead of us. The paradigm shifts, this is the way of MMOs.

Colors!

Let's agree to disagree and end with OP is a silly goose.

[Leonus]

Jake the dog and Fin the human...

Mmm, adventure time.

[Craiger]

In 2.x the monks were absolute kings. Now in 3.0 the other 2 melee classes were pushed so they can compete with monks.
Proof of this is that except for Elixier Field, monks didnt get anything that is actually pushing the dmg. All other skills are only meant to give monks something to do, when they cant attack and make the loss of GL3 not hurt so much. Sacrificing GL3 for TK, when boss becomes unattackable. Loading Chakra for FC/Puri whlie boss is unattackable and ofc our new best friend form shift.
This is not a complaint, hell thanks to Puri + invigorate, form shift and elixier field I was able to constant aoe in a2 and only being beaten bei a SMN (wich isnt really surprising)


Monks didnt need a dmg buff, sure at equal skill of the player a DRG can be stronger than a monk but we've seen it coming. DRG was GARBAGE in 2.x and now with DRG themed expansion they had to make the DRG much stronger and usefuler.

OP simply doesnt know one thing: the good players dont join a duty finder party. Good players rarely join DF solo because what do ppl usually do with the good ones? They befriend them and go on runs as a group. So its not a surprise that he never saw a DRG or Ninja beat him.

NIN, DRG and MNK was pretty equal in DPS after 2.45(DRG buff), so I don't know what you're talking about...

It's not the case of them pushing NIN and DRG to the levels of MNK, because they were never behind in the first place... and now DRG is too far ahead on DPS. NIN is still pretty equal to MNK though.

MNK have a better Mantra, but it's usefulness is limited. Sure you can find many situations where it's good to use, but it rarely will be needed to beat anything, and I rather have other utility. DK was very very good to have in 2.X if you were progressing early on, but now you can just bring a DRK instead and get higher DPS from DRG.

DRG have Litany and piercing debuff, which is good utility, so I don't see why they would need higher DPS too...

NIN has more balanced DPS, but they still have Trick Attack and Goad, which is awesome. I'm hearing people say NINs are slightly behind MNK in DPS, which would be pretty balanced if true.

[Leonus]

NIN, DRG and MNK was pretty equal ...

Mmm,

Well... before 2.45 drg was in mnks shadow. At the time (when I had all 3 at max) I always did more dps on my mnk than drg or nin(when equally geared), and drg at the time only had the piercing debuff. I mean, there isn't anything wrong with the order shifting between the 3 melee from expansion to expansion. All the dps are close enough that you can play what you want.

Also, not every group will have a drk. War and pld are still tanks to consider for whatever content you're taking on.

[Craiger]

Mmm,

Well... before 2.45 drg was in mnks shadow. At the time (when I had all 3 at max) I always did more dps on my mnk than drg or nin(when equally geared), and drg at the time only had the piercing debuff. I mean, there isn't anything wrong with the order shifting between the 3 melee from expansion to expansion. All the dps are close enough that you can play what you want.

Also, not every group will have a drk. War and pld are still tanks to consider for whatever content you're taking on.

Before 2.45, yes, but we have to compare the state things were in just before the expansion to how it is now, no point in comparing how it was before that.

Like I said, all melee were close to each other just before the expansion, but then they clearly added more DPS to DRG, while just trying to "fix" some downtime issues for MNK. The DPS difference is actually quite big, considering there isn't any reason DRG should be above.

Not every group have DRK in them, but it still makes DK less of a necessity for many groups. If having a DRK and DRG in your group gives you higher DPS than other alternatives, then you will see many groups going for that, because DPS is extremely important when progressing in raids.

It mostly the way the DPS difference was created that I don't like... They should have added more skills that increase DPS for MNK too, and for NIN. It's like they made changes 100% for downtime, even though they clearly fall behind on DPS. They even decreased the potency on the "big hitting" new abilities that MNK gets (compared to how it was in the France event)

It's not okay for them to just give a job higher DPS because they're the focus of the expansion... You need to keep it as balanced as possible.

[Leonus]

I can kind of see where you are coming from, but at the same time, being "forced" to bring a mnk for DK was already kind of... "wrong" I guess. Especially considering mnks were the highest dps.

They should be closer together, BUT from what I have seen on parses, everyone was within a decent range of each other. I haven't seen to many lately comparing the 3, so I'm not 100% sure anymore.

I think, drk/drg and war/mnk with the other melee being nin (though the others work) will be a thing.

We'll see in savage though I guess. I guess, give a bit more time. If it's a problem I'm sure SE will either nerf drg or buff nin/mnk. If anything, I think the changes would be minor.