We should have a "Lance mage", "Ninja Sword mage", "Fist mage"

[Tila]

I wasn't aware being beyond 3 yards of the boss completely halted your ability to do damage as a ranged class. Clearly the melee should deal with those mechanics instead so the ranged classes aren't so burdened by their inability to DPS from beyond 3 yards.

Don't waste your breath. All their arguments are coming down to "Nuh uh"

[Ortamus]

This post is probably a little out of place but I'd love to see Black Mages being able to give more support to other party members. I think back to Vivi and how cool it was he was able to help out Steiner. Imagine an ability where the BLM was able to cast an elemental buff on a player so when they attacked extra damage could be inflicted on the enemy....To be fair I just want to see weapons covered in sparks, fire, or ice

[Snowaeth]

/sigh

Melee can do those mechanics what I'm saying. However, if you suggested that in a party, people would probably ask "why?" Followed by "you'Re being stupid, that's so much dps lost". People want to be efficient, do what's easiest, it's human nature.

If I ever party with you, for real, I will do all the mechanics as a drg and allow you to dps all out so that your fonot havery to do anthing to make myour lif easker as a melee. However, people will give me a wierd look as my dps will probably be at around yours.

It won't be efficient, and I'll probably be kicked because "my dps sucks for a drg", but if that makes you see why the player base has ranged classes do these things instead of melee, I will gladly do it.

Ranged classes "handle more mechanics" at times, really only a few fights, because that's the role the player base has assigned to them.

That's all.

And that's my point.
You guys are telling how melee have MORE mechanics to deal with.
But in reality in a real fight where everyone plays their ASSIGNED role, the ranged are the ones doing SAME or MORE amount of mechanics, not less.

I am not saying melee should do mechanics that are better done by ranged, there are just a ton of mechanics specifically made like this to affect the ranged players just as much if not more.
So don't give me the melee have it so much harder, since you simply don't.

Cast times + mechanics is a harsher punishment than positionals+melee range with instant skills.

[hallena]

This post is probably a little out of place but I'd love to see Black Mages being able to give more support to other party members. I think back to Vivi and how cool it was he was able to help out Steiner. Imagine an ability where the BLM was able to cast an elemental buff on a player so when they attacked extra damage could be inflicted on the enemy....To be fair I just want to see weapons covered in sparks, fire, or ice

What i find funny is Apocatastasis is basically a terrible version of Fey Covenant. Its single target, has a longer cooldown and leave a debuff on the target so you can't chain it with another blm.
It seems like the devs refuse to give blm any utility

[Leonus]

Cast times + mechanics is a harsher punishment than positionals+melee range with instant skills.

I personally don't think ranged have to deal with more mechanics (except for a few instances) and that's really only because it's silly to have melee disconnect from the boss for xx seconds to do it when the ranged can do it and loose less time not hitting somethimg. Usually the exceptions have that person solely handling that mechanic the entire fight while everyone else focuses on dps. Like Renauds in t7, blue fire in T12.

I don't have much experience with cast times, I won't lie about that but melee do deal with positionals + mechanics + melee range.

I'll say a lot of mechanics do target single players, I just don't want people to think melee ride easy while ranged do everything at the melee's beck and call because of "dps".

I was also always under the assumption that cast times were a ranged or casters version of positionals. Instead of having to move into position, you have to root yourself I place.

[Snowaeth]

I personally don't think ranged have to deal with more mechanics (except for a few instances) and that's really only because it's silly to have melee disconnect from the boss for xx seconds to do it when the ranged can do it and loose less time not hitting somethimg. Usually the exceptions have that person solely handling that mechanic the entire fight while everyone else focuses on dps. Like Renauds in t7, blue fire in T12.

I don't have much experience with cast times, I won't lie about that but melee do deal with positionals + mechanics + melee range.

I'll say a lot of mechanics do target single players, I just don't want people to think melee ride easy while ranged do everything at the melee's beck and call because of "dps".

I was also always under the assumption that cast times were a ranged or casters version of positionals. Instead of having to move into position, you have to root yourself I place.

That's the thing tho, melee is compensated for any forced downtime that they have by higher damage.
Being in melee range doesn't make you have a harder time dodging mechanics, you can't deny the boss hitbox is huge and allows for a lot of movement, not less movement than a ranged would take to dodge out of an aoe, you don't have the freedom to go anywhere you want, but there is no need for that either. Same as there is no need for melee to do the mechanics which are better done by ranged. It's common sense, but it does result into ranged doing those mechanics not the melee.

You could compare cast times to positionals yes, but I find that missing a positional on most melee's is a lot less fatal than missing a cast (especially talking BLM here) sure you'd loose like 200+ potency but a BLM could loose 500+ potency from that.
The new Bard cast times do compare slightly better to positionals in that regard as the potency loss would be slightly lower, but then again how's that easier than melee?

[Tilgung]

You guys are telling how melee have MORE mechanics to deal with.

Cast times + mechanics is a harsher punishment than positionals+melee range with instant skills.

I certainly wasn't. What I will tell you though than any mechanic forcing melee out of range of an enemy is MUCH more punishing to us than any mechanics forcing you to stop midcast and move before resuming.

That reason above is why ranged deal with those mechanics. None of which are difficult anyway.

(Optional for Bard and Mechanist)Cast times + mechanics is a lesser punishment than mechanics + positionals + melee range with instant skills.

[Snowaeth]

I certainly wasn't. What I will tell you though than any mechanic forcing melee out of range of an enemy is MUCH more punishing to us than any mechanics forcing you to stop midcast and move before resuming.

That reason above is why ranged deal with those mechanics. None of which are difficult anyway.

(Optional for Bard and Mechanist)Cast times + mechanics is a lesser punishment than mechanics + positionals + melee range with instant skills.

Saying it is MUCH more punishing to melee doesn't really explain a whole lot.
Melee come with higher top damage, which is lowered by forced disconnects to bring it closer to the other dps.

The only time a melee has to disconnect is forced disconnects all the other mechanics are a simple dance that everyone has to deal with in their own way, ranged or not ranged.
There are not a whole lot of forced disconnects that favor ranged over melee, boss jumpst and invincibility don't count.
Forced movement are easier on melee than on BLM.
Boss forcing disconnects by some teleport is one of the few moments that melee get screwed over ranged.
The 360 degree aoe's don't even hurt your gcd flow if you make sure to land your attack before moving out.

Saying cast times are optional for MCH/BRD is untrue. Something is only optional when both options are about equal.
In this case cast times are a must and are only turned off when there are very heavy movement phases, there are very few of those (dodging one aoe is not something we'd turn off cast times for) just like there are very few phases where melee's are force disconnected.

I've done the melee, bard and blm dances and now WM bard dance plenty, the melee dance is the easiest after the pre 3.0 bard dance which was compensated for by the lowest max dps potential on bard.

BLM > BRD in WM > MCH in Gauss > SMN > NIN > MCH > BRD > Tank.
These would be the difficulty of the dances I wouldn't know where to place healers as I haven't healed any remotely challenging content in ages and I only have experience on NIN for melee content, but I'm grouping the melee's with that.

[Wintersandman]

how does a 1.5 seconds wait for almost every attack not make it slower?

2.5 second global cooldown is greater than your cast timer. So you wait for a 1.5 second cast and then wait 1 second to do your next ability. So in reality it is still 2.5 seconds inbetween abilities either way. This is ignoring OGCD abilities which you still have access to.

Secondly, are you implying that mobility isn't important because you're not frequently forced to move?

Saying your making a mountain out of ant hill. It sounds like a big whine fest when in reality it doesn't change much.

Yes. Does it matter if it makes that much of a difference regardless? No. Because if it's possible to limit mobility without adding cast times, then you don't mess around with play style as much, since Bards have to level from 1 to 52 without worrying about it.

What would be an acceptable solution in your mind? Because everything else I have seen suggested, (buffs, etc.) will only make bards want to move less and thus for more dead bards.

Less frantic trying to fit in all the OGCDs you can

So every 1 minute you may have 1-2 oGCD buffs to apply that is up to 24 abilities before these become a concern. Bloodletter you have to worry about every 15 seconds or every 6 abilities, ignoring bloodletter procs since these are subject to RNG. Again mountain out of an ant hill.

[Aiselia]

This is ignoring OGCD abilities which you still have access to.

With 2.5 sec of time between GCDs, you can fit in more OGCDs per GCD than with 1 second.
For example, using 2 buffs instead of 1 per GCD.

Therefore, slower.