As a male gamer, thank you for not oversexualizing every female NPC

[Darki]

People who need to low effort pat their own back and seek attention proclaiming how progressive they are. Bonus points that *shock* op is male (like anyone cares what gender you are).

To be honest, I almost called him out on that a while ago. "As a <insert any demographic here>..." doesn't give anyone the right to speak for a whole demographic. Only themselfs. I am all for expressing opinions but...come on. Speak for oneself not others. This thread has been beaten to death a long time ago anyway so I have switched to s*** posting along with most of the people on here.

[Kosmos992k]

Where you're confused is that Samcaesar is talking about other games. You are absolutely right that FFXIV does pretty well in this regard. That's what the whole bloody thread is about, after all.

Samcaesar was replying to me, we had been discussing FFXIV. I replied in the context of the discussion I was already having. if the dIscussion shifted, I'll leave it there.

But what you both missed is that I was talking about the moe craze as a factor in greater female character design, not that it was the reason for Shiva and Garuda to be depicted as they are. The moe craze is a symptom of greater issues with female representation in Japan, so it's never surprising when it creeps into female character design elements. That being said, I retract that statement as it is obvious that Shiva and Garuda are just generically sexy for the hell of it, rather than anything to do with the moe culture that has take over so much of the anime and video game industry in Japan.

I'm not entirely sure of what you are implying when talking about a "moe craze", or saying that moe culture has taken over aspects of anime/games in Japan. I'd have to point out that kawaii has very much been a part of japanese pop culture for decades. It's hardly a recent 'craze', I'll refer you to Kimba the White Lion (Disney really should be sued) which dates back to the 50's, and there are numerous examples of anime - aka 'japanimation' shown on westerm TV in the 70's and beyond. Speed Racer, Marine Boy, Gatchaman (aka Battle of the Planets), etc... have multiple examples of kawaii, and/or moe characters. Hello Kitty is 40 this year....this isn't a recent trend.

[MirielleLavandre]

I was just talking about this with a male FC mate earlier. I'm a woman and mother, but occasionally I like to be silly, too. I got a drop of some WHM 'smalls' in one of the dungeon that look hilariously like daisy dukes, so I made a silly glamour with it. One of the first things he admitted was that when I went from my normal glamour of the Immortal Flames robes to the glamour below is that I, indeed, now looked like a G.I.R.L (or a guy in real life who plays a girl) -- I'm guessing because, as can be seen in this thread, many believe that somehow women can't be silly and sexy just for fun, which is a little sad. I'm guilty of doing the same, at times, and thinking the characters in steel bikinis are guys, but after that discussion I kind of feel bad if that is the first reaction people get.



**Edit: I've since gone back to the Immortal Flames robes because, for some silly reason in the back of my mind, I didn't like thinking that everyone around me was judging me to be a guy who was obsessed with looking at a made up characters behind... - I probably never would have even thought of that if I'd not had the conversation or read this thread**

[Seryne]

I'm curious as to why some people think that if a female character is dressed in a bikini they're a G.I.R.L.? I'm a woman and I enjoy dressing my character in a bikini or in revealing outfits sometimes. Are we not supposed to be silly or sexy? Are we supposed to be nuns or something?

[Minya]

A lot of women, including myself, like to look "cool" and maybe skimpier or whatever. I dont care if everyone is naked but you know people get offended by pixels. This game is really awesome with the choice of outfits and some revealing men outfits. ;D IF ONLY THERE WAS A BULGE SLIDER

[Zyrusticae]

Samcaesar was replying to me, we had been discussing FFXIV. I replied in the context of the discussion I was already having. if the dIscussion shifted, I'll leave it there.

Well, that was the impression I was under. At some point we weren't even discussing FFXIV but trends in character design in general.

I'm not entirely sure of what you are implying when talking about a "moe craze", or saying that moe culture has taken over aspects of anime/games in Japan. I'd have to point out that kawaii has very much been a part of japanese pop culture for decades. It's hardly a recent 'craze', I'll refer you to Kimba the White Lion (Disney really should be sued) which dates back to the 50's, and there are numerous examples of anime - aka 'japanimation' shown on westerm TV in the 70's and beyond. Speed Racer, Marine Boy, Gatchaman (aka Battle of the Planets), etc... have multiple examples of kawaii, and/or moe characters. Hello Kitty is 40 this year....this isn't a recent trend.

Oh, come on! Now you're just playing dumb.

Yes, you can throw a handful of really old examples of what would serve as precursors to modern 'moe', but 'moe' as we know it today didn't become as crazy-ubiquitous in Japan until the mid-90s/early 00's. I'm talking hundreds and hundreds of series designed specifically to pander towards the otaku demographic with girls styled in that ever-so-recognizable moe fashion. The anime industry in particular exploded with this stuff, and to this day you see it EVERYWHERE. There was a definite and recognizable shift towards this style of design. That's what I mean when I say 'the moe craze'.

[EdwinLi]

I already said I was a guy so...

That look almost works except for the body piece being pink. I don't know just that that part of the Vaniety just make the Vaniety felt rushed in design. If you ever go back to that look maybe dye that body piece. Nothing ruins a Vaniety look than the feeling it was put together randomly.

(Yes I'm very picky when it comes to vaniety looks. Blame MMOs because before Vaniety Option was a thing in MMOs most players look like clowns sometimes until they reach end game gear or atleast very fat people in very fat armor.)

Now Back on topic:

Well as I said before I like FF14 for its variety in vanity so far. The game is constantly adding more for different styles and doesn't force a look on someone for the entire game thanks to the Vaniety system.

[Kolsykol]

snip

The irony of men judging women and telling em how to think, feel and dress in the name of '' progressiveness ''.
Liana Kerzner touched on this in her latest discussion video on youtube if you're aware of her.
She comments on a video which is kinda disturbing honestly. Kids are practically taught to judge and tell women what to think and feel about their own sexuality and what to wear.
I love that she compares Liu Kang to the cast of Magic Mike, lol. They look identical to each other. Yet women who show LESS skin, are considered '' objectified ''.
Also. The fact that if a woman has large breasts and shows cleavage. It's '' sexualized ''. Yet a woman with smaller breasts isn't considered to be sexualized.
There's just a crap ton of hypocrisy and quite disturbing ideas going on.

You can look up '' Rosalind Wiseman's Boys and Gaming Study: A Second Look '' on youtube. I found her video on it to be quite interesting.

[Zyrusticae]

The irony of men judging women and telling em how to think, feel and dress in the name of '' progressiveness ''.

Those people are not progressives. They are sexists.

They're also a red herring, a straw man designed to make actual progressives look dumb. Please don't refer to them as though they automatically debunk everything every progressive has ever said.

Liana Kerzner touched on this in her latest discussion video on youtube if you're aware of her.
She comments on a video which is kinda disturbing honestly. Kids are practically taught to judge and tell women what to think and feel about their own sexuality and what to wear.
I love that she compares Liu Kang to the cast of Magic Mike, lol. They look identical to each other. Yet women who show LESS skin, are considered '' objectified ''.
Also. The fact that if a woman has large breasts and shows cleavage. It's '' sexualized ''. Yet a woman with smaller breasts isn't considered to be sexualized.
There's just a crap ton of hypocrisy and quite disturbing ideas going on.

You can look up '' Rosalind Wiseman's Boys and Gaming Study: A Second Look '' on youtube. I found her video on it to be quite interesting.

Yes, all of this feeds into the sexist culture that we live in. The double-standard of slut shaming and "frigid bitches" is incredibly lame, to be sure.

But I don't see what this has to do with this thread's topic. It's just a guy praising SE for bucking the ubiquitous trend of oversexualizing female characters regardless of characterization. Nowhere does he engage in slut shaming. In fact, the only ones I see bringing this up at all are people attempting to derail the thread by bringing up things that are only tangentially related to the topic. It's already gotten kind of old at this point.

[Kolsykol]

Snip

And yet. You conduct yourself in off topic discussions yourself.
I was responding to another comment and wanted to share a video with her that she might ( I can't read her mind, MIGHT ) find interesting too.
It wasn't off topic in terms of her specific comment.

I was trying to be nice and share something that I myself found to be interesting.
I don't see how what I said, or me sharing something like that. Is any more / less off topic than the discussions you're having in this thread.

And btw, I also wasn't trying to stereotype progressives, hence the air quotes.
I consider myself to be progressive. I am very stereotypically Scandinavian in terms of politics. In other words, probably way '' too open '' according to say, American standards.
My point was in fact, that those people are NOT progressive. That they are sexists like you yourself said. You missinterpreted what I meant.