We should have a "Lance mage", "Ninja Sword mage", "Fist mage"

[Ephier]

What? Go back and read what I said and keep it this time in context of what I was originally replying to in my comment...if helps I added a bracketed bit of text on third line to help you understand/clarify.

Only if your willing to take a 40+% overall DPS baseline loss of which to place/build that 30% on.

You are saying for NIN to be able to get the 30% damage buff they must lose 40% overall DPS? Am I reading that properly? If so, BRD did not lose no where near 40% of its DPS.

[Snugglebutt]

You are saying for NIN to be able to get the 30% damage buff they must lose 40% overall DPS? Am I reading that properly? If so, BRD did not lose no where near 40% of its DPS.

Bard has a lower baseline DPS output compared to most other DPS classes which WM partially was to offset by increasing that baseline by 30% while under WM.

The original person said "So getting +30% more damage to do what I'm already doing? Sign me the frick up!", it would not be accurate way to compare bard with WM. Just throwing a 30% buff on other classes would throw balance out the window unless those classes are counter balanced. If use another DPS class and just plopped on WM style buff like lets say ninja or monk, mage or dragoon as examples the classes would need a baseline DPS decrease to make it comparable to what a bard with WM is capable of and if was to have 30% WM style buff to another DPS classes current potential damage output then to make the comparison more equal he would need to increase the buff achieved on bard WM to compensate or decrease their own to bring it more inline. That was what I was trying to say. Bard already had a lower DPS output potential which is why the 30% buff from WM did not and has not overpowered the class.

[Snowaeth]

You are saying for NIN to be able to get the 30% damage buff they must lose 40% overall DPS? Am I reading that properly? If so, BRD did not lose no where near 40% of its DPS.

Tell me again what the trade offs on Kiss of the Viper's 20% dmg increase are for Ninja?

Was just wondering. Especially with people that were saying that WM pre 30% was fine at 20% - auto's - mobility +3sec toggle.

[Tila]

Tell me again what the trade offs on Kiss of the Viper's 20% dmg increase are for Ninja?

Was just wondering. Especially with people that were saying that WM pre 30% was fine at 20% - auto's - mobility +3sec toggle.

Ninja is a melee with positionals. What further trade off is needed? They are in a less safe environment and are more prone to periods of not being able to do anything than range classes, and due to having to be in constant motion while keeping up with postionals, and maintaining buffs/debuffs have a harder time keeping up with a rotation.

[Snowaeth]

Ninja is a melee with positionals. What further trade off is needed? They are in a less safe environment and are more prone to periods of not being able to do anything than range classes, and due to having to be in constant motion while keeping up with postionals, and maintaining buffs/debuffs have a harder time keeping up with a rotation.

Please do name me these less safe environments inside raids, heck even primals, in which melee's are finding themselves that do not affect ranged players equally or even more if they have to cast cancel.
Not really interested in hearing basic open world stuff, normal dungeons as that's faceroll content for pretty much anyone and anything.

[Leonus]

Please do name me these less safe environments inside raids, heck even primals, in which melee's are finding themselves that do not affect ranged players equally or even more if they have to cast cancel.
Not really interested in hearing basic open world stuff, normal dungeons as that's faceroll content for pretty much anyone and anything.

Do you want to start in 2.x? Or just 3.0, because there is a lot actually.

Edit: this is a serious question. I'd say blm is more negatively affected by having to move than smn or brd/mch. I can list things but I'm genuinely asking.

[Snowaeth]

Do you want to start in 2.x? Or just 3.0, because there is a lot actually.

Start wherever you want.

Edit: this is a serious answer I ll gladly hear about all the hardships of you having to press 123 145 6 while taking two steps to the left or right.

[Snugglebutt]

Do you want to start in 2.x? Or just 3.0, because there is a lot actually.

Edit: this is a serious question.

Feel free to list them all, all the 360 circular AoE's that centered on bosses which for the most part are really the only major ones melee's need to avoid. Cone and line AoE's coming direct from boss should most often be facing away from the DPS unless the tank is not doing a good job plus the line ones ranged classes also tend to need to avoid.

Most of those boss centric AoE's do not need to be dodged unless a melee is for some reason standing in front of the boss which they should not be. Add up all the boss centered 360 AoE's that only melee have to dodge and then add up all the ranged AoE's, I think you'll find more ranged AoE's than boss centered 360 ones which require the melee's running away from boss.

On your latter added point about BLM's, I agree they have harder time dodging AoE's but they do a crap load more damage to make up for it than bard. I personally wouldn't want to play a BLM or SMN partially because of that mobility limitation though SMN I think according to others has more mobility than BLM by a fair amount. My next main now that bard is no longer fun will be either one of my current melee's or maybe a melee class I have yet to try like DRG.

[Tila]

snip

You forget that many of the cone and line AoE can't be directed as they purposely shift around so they aren't always tank centered. Due to constant movement of the boss, melee DPS are always struggling to maintain the proper positioning.

Meanwhile the BRD takes two steps to the left and doesnt worry about which way the boss is facing. Or the BLM stops a cast, takes a few steps, and doesn't worry about which way the boss if facing.

Melee working harder to do their job is a thing in pretty much every MMO, FFXIV included.

[Leonus]

Feel free...

There is more than just the 360 ones. There are conails that do face to the rear. There are the ones that target individual characters that happen to melees as well (usually one melee and one ranged). There is any time you have to move to an add that spawns across the map (really only a dps loss for melee).

Just recent examples are in bismark ex and Ravana ex. There is seeing wings/right/left ( they don't affect ranged right? ) I mean , not to take anything from ranged but there is a lot.

If it wasn't for ravana being invincible so much, ranged dps would do even better as they can get to the safe spots where as if a melee is trying to push their dps, they stay on him as long as they can before being forced to disconnect.

Everyone deals with mechanics, but don't downplay what melee put up with too much.