We should have a "Lance mage", "Ninja Sword mage", "Fist mage"

[Rikkustrife]

The reason the class felt so "streamlined" before was because it was insanely mindless and simple. The fact that it's gained complexity is the issue for most people. Same issue being felt by BLMS.

It hasn't though, at all.

[Aiselia]

- Mobility is reduced, but the job's still the most mobile one in the game, by far.

I'd argue this.

Summoners have two cast-time abilities outside of DWT that are necessary to maintain. Ruin 1 does the same damage as Ruin 2 but you can move while using Ruin 2 and you have enough MP to use it during high movement phases. The only time Summoners are particularly locked down are for the 5 sec it takes to cast Bio 2/Miasma, then the <15 sec of DWT using Ruin 3 (less than because your last hit will be the instant cast DF).

Summoners do not suffer a DPS loss by using Ruin 2 over Ruin 1 if they need to move, while Bards would suffer a DPS loss if they had to turn off WM.

Oddly enough, I feel less limited in mobility while on an actual caster than I do as a Bard.

you can't have everything.

You also can limit mobility (if necessary) without adding cast times.

it's gained complexity

If anything, it has become less complex and challenging because the cast times give it a slower pace.

[Ephier]

I'd argue this.

Summoners have two cast-time abilities outside of DWT that are necessary to maintain. Ruin 1 does the same damage as Ruin 2 but you can move while using Ruin 2 and you have enough MP to use it during high movement phases. The only time Summoners are particularly locked down are for the 5 sec it takes to cast Bio 2/Miasma, then the <15 sec of DWT using Ruin 3 (less than because your last hit will be the instant cast DF).

Summoners do not suffer a DPS loss by using Ruin 2 over Ruin 1 if they need to move, while Bards would suffer a DPS loss if they had to turn off WM.

Oddly enough, I feel less limited in mobility while on an actual caster than I do as a Bard.



You also can limit mobility (if necessary) without adding cast times.



If anything, it has become less complex and challenging because the cast times give it a slower pace.

Less complex than 2.0 BRD? How?

[Fyce]

I'd argue this.

The fact that you said that SMN have to be rooted for 5s every now and then, plus 15s every minute proves my point since that will never happen with a Bard.
Besides, go try doing a good job in someine like A1 (keeping DoTs on both bosses), killing two adds while using Ruin II and I can guarantee you that your MP pool will be gone in a blink.

Bards, even in WM, remains mobile at range at all time. No other job can do that.

[Kaze3434]

60 SCH/SMN, and lectures me on how I am complaining for naught.

You don't even play Bard.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/8001661/
oh look, something something kettle.

[Kumori_Kumo]

Hm.
I mean, I don't play a Bard. I mostly tank. But at the same time I'm lookin' around at other classes.
Does Bard do a ton of damage? The Bard I remember sure didn't, but I might be mistaken! Probably not though?
Does Bard do great utility? Ninjas give me all the TP I want and Machinist seems to be like five times the toolbox of any other class.
So... if all that's true, I guess the question I'm asking myself here is... why a Bard? Why would you roll one now if it's not the total run-and-gun fun in the sun class with middling damage? I've always thought it was "the simple job" but there's room for that. Some people like simple jobs. You can't tell people they're wrong for their choices. But I'm not much of a DPS, so enlighten me!

[Wintersandman]

while Bards would suffer a DPS loss if they had to turn off WM.

Out of curiosity how much time over the course of a 3-5 minute fight are you forced to move?

Oddly enough, I feel less limited in mobility while on an actual caster than I do as a Bard.

This is just a perception seeing how your ability timers are significantly shorter than other casters.

You also can limit mobility (if necessary) without adding cast times.

Does it may that much of a difference? Bloodletter aside.

If anything, it has become less complex and challenging because the cast times give it a slower pace.

How does it slow things down? Just because you don't get to run around like a jack rabbit doesn't mean anything is slower.

[Rikkustrife]

Hm.
But I'm not much of a DPS, so enlighten me!

Well bards did more damage than people here seem to think, but yes they did lower damage than the other dps.
Otherwise you are correct.
It is a simple job, but black mage was just as simple, black mage now seems a lot more complex though.
I don't know why some people like the new changes, but some do

[Zamii]

please, make me into a fist mage as the OP's title said, then i would be able to show all the whiners just how easy it is to use cast times and still dodge everything.

ok, so its not the class you played originally, guess what, this is an MMO, things change; sometimes you like them, sometimes you don't.
but you know what, your not restricted to bard, if you don't like the class anymore, then play something else.

[Rikkustrife]

How does it slow things down? Just because you don't get to run around like a jack rabbit doesn't mean anything is slower.

how does a 1.5 seconds wait for almost every attack not make it slower?