The Tale of the Dark Knight (DRK Spoilers)

[Cilia]

snip

I've neither read nor watched Fight Club, but as for Ra's al Ghul and the League of Shadows from Batman... remember, Batman became an exile and was hunted down by them because he betrayed their orders. Dark knights follow no orders but their heart's - having an organization they answer to undercuts this ideal. (Of course they still protect the innocent, but typically do so on their own terms and only because it's what they want to do. You could say they selfishly pursue selflessness, like a certain visual novel hero.)

Having a master doesn't mean there's an organization, it just means there's someone able and willing (however grudgingly) to teach would-be dark knights the art. Look at the Sith from Star Wars - after Darth Bane declared the Rule of Two, there was just a master and a student who kept their activities on the down low to avoid suspicion. It's better that way; dark knights answer to nobody, so nobody loses anything if they're killed or captured. Except the knights themselves. So while there might be other dark knights, we don't know of them, and it's better for everyone that way.

[Allyrion]

I've neither read nor watched Fight Club, but as for Ra's al Ghul and the League of Shadows from Batman... remember, Batman became an exile and was hunted down by them because he betrayed their orders. Dark knights follow no orders but their heart's - having an organization they answer to undercuts this ideal. (Of course they still protect the innocent, but typically do so on their own terms and only because it's what they want to do. You could say they selfishly pursue selflessness, like a certain visual novel hero.)

Having a master doesn't mean there's an organization, it just means there's someone able and willing (however grudgingly) to teach would-be dark knights the art. Look at the Sith from Star Wars - after Darth Bane declared the Rule of Two, there was just a master and a student who kept their activities on the down low to avoid suspicion. It's better that way; dark knights answer to nobody, so nobody loses anything if they're killed or captured. Except the knights themselves. So while there might be other dark knights, we don't know of them, and it's better for everyone that way.

I've thought of the Sith Order too, but they had the backing of rules and tradition established when the Sith hard their own Empire.
They're all about desire and personal gain, but they still were well established as an organization and order, even after splintering into smaller factions. We don't really get that.

And like I said, I don't really buy that DRKs follow their heart. "Fray" told us that, but he also told us to give up saving people completely.
He was what we made of him and though he had knowledge from the original Fray's soulstone, his words were more about us than the DRK way.
That 'Fray' would have us go away and do whatever we want.

We know the real DRK suffer themselves in Ishgard against all the danger and being outcasts to protect the weak.
Something our 'Fray' would certainly be upset about. The difference between what the WoL pre-DRK quest line and what we know of the DRK is that they can accept and use the darker part of themselves.
That, and they are willing to do whatever it takes for their cause.
But they definitely seem just as dutiful, which I would say isn't 'following their hearts'.

We see that with Sidurgu for sure. I got the strong impression he was interested in doing what he must rather than what he wants.
So on the following orders part, I don't necessarily agree. They don't associate with rules of Ishgard because people hide behind titles and power.
Any DRK organization would just have to have checks and balances to hold all accountable, then it wouldn't have any hypocrisy.

What I can agree with is that maybe they do have a Rule of Two with splintered groups, to protect themselves.
But that still means there's space to meet others. And if the Rule of Two is the way of the DRK, then the student-master aspect is still a core part of that.
Sidurgu is kind of one, but it isn't really portrayed like that. So it would make sense for us to get a formal master.

[Reinhart]

I'm pretty certain that Sid's master wasn't the first Dark Knight, and it's the Soul Crystals that make me think this, namely from Dark Knight and one of the other new jobs.

Soul of the Dark Knight: Upon the surface of this multi-aspected crystal are carved the myriad deeds of dark knights from eras past.

Soul of the Machinist: Unlike other soul crystals, the surface of this multi-aspected stone has yet to be carved with the record of past deeds.

If Dark Knight was only a couple generations old, the lore team might have used a different wording than 'myriad', which is used for every other Soul Crystal. I doubt it's history is as long as even the Dragoon's, which started roughly a thousand years ago with the start of the Dragonsong War and the first Azure Dragoon (unless it's an older tradition than that), but I could see the Dark Knight 'tradition' as it were starting a few to several centuries ago after Ishgard's religion and Houses had started to settle and grow corrupt.

[Cilia]

snip

The actual reason behind the Sith Rule of Two was, according to Darth Bane, to keep the power of the dark side within two individuals; supposedly it was more powerful that way. The subversion was just a bonus.

Anyway, in regards to Sidurgu doing his duty vs. following his heart, after the mini reenactment of the King Moggle fight in the 58 quest he fesses up and admits that he's just been using his duty to indulge in his personal vendetta - using protecting Rielle as an excuse to kill Temple Knights in revenge for them killing his family when he first came to Ishgard. Killing Temple Knights is not the same thing as protecting Rielle. He has to grow and accept his own darkness and stop using his self-imposed duty as an excuse for indulging in his personal vendetta and a way to gain more power.

In other words, moogles have to teach him that he actually cares about Rielle as a person.

In regards to Fray, I don't believe s/he ever said we should stop trying to save people. What s/he said was we should stop trying to save everyone; that is, recognize what is important and what is not, and not waste time and energy trying to help every last single person who begs for our assistance. Instead of helping every last person who goes "Hey, can you do this little favor for me?" we should cut down the root of the problem and have no qualms killing whoever gets in our way.

A certain lesson of Kreia's from KotOR II comes to mind. Still, we have to play a straight hero, so we can't just excise the root of the problem, consequences be damned, and leave Eorzea to sort out the aftermath.