Oh, so FFXIV is pay-to-win? That's... stupid.

[Rath]

Im a crafter first most, not only a gatherer like your friend. Unlike her im still making millions a day even with heavy competition. Having stockpiled resources means I wont have to buy leather off the mb for 30k each every time someone decides to buy out the mbs stock.
I already used most of those. Thats the difference: You sell materials, while I craft those into items and sell them for more.

Okay, taking your bait here. I was not baiting you btw, I was actually trying to figure out how to fill 2 retainers with current materials when I fit them all on me as a lvl 60 grandmaster of the hand/land. The Only HW item I have placed in my retainers is thav silk. That is just there until I get enough to use them.

First I sell the extra felts I make. I desynth 100 or 200 NPC items a day for various things as my desynth skills are 175+. I do not keep extras lying around. I sell leftover felts for 25k each now in stacks of 5 or 10, I used to sell them for 200k each. I make gathering and crafting gear from them and sell the rest. The same goes with anything I mine up. I mine when I want to make something and do not feel like buying the mats for it, maybe keep a few nuggets/ingots of HW mats in my INVENTORY, not on a retainer. I will either use them or sell them by the end of the evening. Everything you could possibly need to craft HW items fits on you, but you said you have them on retainers. That is not using them it is storing them.


You can buy skins for 2-3k each and make your leather, the people that buy those 30k leathers usually hand them to a crafter to make something for them lol. Also, I am unsure why you are making HQ 1 star mats, unless you mean you are making HQ mats that are currently used for lvl 60 1 star recipes, in which case I am still not sure why as they are easily HQ'd with NQ mats with melded gear. If you are speculating on the next set of recipes, I wish you luck, otherwise I am sure they will sit on your retainer forever and that is a pity.

As for my friend, she makes that much gil a day from selling gathering materials. I have not inquired about her crafting and other sources of income. She had stacks of items like volcanic rocksalts, dez tomatoes HQ, steel ingots, rosegold nuggets, food out the wazoo! All stuff that she had planned to sell or use at one point but then just never got to it because she was always getting other materials to sell. Some things sold as is, others I quicksynthed into stuff I could liquidate. Some shit I even listed on PF and sold bulk.

[Bebekurenai]

What I don't get is: we can't have more armoury chest space or armoire space because it creates server load issues (confirmed in the last live letter), but we can have up to 8 retainers if we pay for them?
Does that mean they can also expand armoury and armoire if they get the cash? Does cash help server load?

[Kaiser-Ace]

I just trash those. I do not have enough retainer slots to sell 40k items that may or may not sell in a few days. Something to do with limited amount of selling slots per retainer I believe. For which you need to pay to get more of.

Anything I put on the markets sells out in an hour IRL or at most a day for extreemly high end items. if it dont sell in a day I either mark it down or sell it to an NPC depending on how much the item fell. If I wont make atleast a grand above its standard sale value it goes to the NPC.

[Kaiser-Ace]

What I don't get is: we can't have more armoury chest space or armoire space because it creates server load issues (confirmed in the last live letter), but we can have up to 8 retainers if we pay for them?
Does that mean they can also expand armoury and armoire if they get the cash? Does cash help server load?

Here here on this. There isnt even enough space to keep one full set of gear for all DoW/M/L/ and H let alone spare gear and loot. And I call BS on server strain. That's a programing cop out since "server strain" doesnt seem to be enough of a problem to fix.

[Aeyis]

I make gathering and crafting gear from them and sell the rest. The same goes with anything I mine up. I mine when I want to make something and do not feel like buying the mats for it, maybe keep a few nuggets/ingots of HW mats in my INVENTORY, not on a retainer. I will either use them or sell them by the end of the evening. Everything you could possibly need to craft HW items fits on you, but you said you have them on retainers. That is not using them it is storing them.

I dont just have those on my retainers, I also have them on me. I simply shift them around depending on my current needs, as I dont have enough room in my inventory to carry them all.
My inventory isnt perfect by any means, but its a good example. If I had the spare time I would make the raw materials into HQ refined items, but that would require quite a lot of time.

Making them into nq is fast, but then you run into that problem where you need HQ star saphires but you only have NQ ones and no raw ones left. Or used your Darkchestnut logs for leather and now you have none left for Darkchestnut Lumber.


Selling things is good and all, but the problem is when you cant rely on market prices to be low. On my server its not uncommon for things such leather to be nearly completely bought out from day to day, raising its prices significantly when that happens.

Desynth is a useful way to obtain materials yes, but only if you have one leveled, and then only of a select type of materials.


I've already run into some issues because I decided to completely convert some raw materials into refined ones. While it saved up inventory slots it also cost me time because I no longer had the means to create them in HQ.

You can buy skins for 2-3k each

Prices vary on the server. Since people buy a lot of skins here they can get quite expansive.

and make your leather, the people that buy those 30k leathers

The ones that buy them here typically craft them into equipment items themselves. Because those sell for far more then the leather they are made of.

Also, I am unsure why you are making HQ 1 star mats, unless you mean you are making HQ mats that are currently used for lvl 60 1 star recipes, in which case I am still not sure why as they are easily HQ'd with NQ mats with melded gear.

Full melded perhaps. Materia prices are rather high on my server, so that level of melds isnt easy to obtain. HQing from NQ isnt quite possible below then. (not at a 100% or near chance anyway, which is a must have if you plan on selling)
The amount of good draughts is simply too high to HQ from NQ..

As for my friend, she makes that much gil a day from selling gathering materials.

Thing is, if she only stored worthless items her inventory wouldnt even be worth 1m. If you could sell it for that much then it was precisely because she kept valuable items.

[Aeyis]

Anything I put on the markets sells out in an hour IRL or at most a day for extreemly high end items. if it dont sell in a day I either mark it down or sell it to an NPC depending on how much the item fell. If I wont make atleast a grand above its standard sale value it goes to the NPC.

Your on balmung....higher population = faster moving markets

[Kaiser-Ace]

Your on balmung....higher population = faster moving markets

And you're on Zodiark Server, the server that didnt have a single turn 5 clear in 2.4. Especially with it being 3.0 now I gurantee the markets are still a craptastic monopoly with no reflection on the other servers echonomies.

[Rath]

They gave us all 8+ of each t4 crafting materia if you do all the hw crafter quests. I am not sure how anyone doesn't have melds adequate enough for nq mats when they have all crafts at 60

[Aeyis]

And you're on Zodiark Server, the server that didnt have a single turn 5 clear in 2.4. Especially with it being 3.0 now I gurantee the markets are still a craptastic monopoly with no reflection on the other servers echonomies.

Is there a reason you need to resort to insults? My comment on Balmungs economy is relevant to this discussion.

They gave us all 8+ of each t4 crafting materia if you do all the hw crafter quests. I am not sure how anyone doesn't have melds adequate enough for nq mats when they have all crafts at 60

About 200 (very rough estimate) tier IV materias are required for melding. Less is you take the cheap route and use III's instead. (which would still be 200x70k~ -> 14m)

Personally I dont have all crafts at 60 yet tho.


It feels to me like your view on this topic is too limited Rath. As someone with more gil on hand I could make room in my inventory because I have the gil to buy it off the market (and lose gil in the process, by saving time).
However someone that is still leveling from 1-50 (60) or simply doesnt have a lot of gil does not have that luxury.

For them stocking on resources means they spend time so that they can save gil, or save time when they need to make their items.


I dont understand why your only choosing to respond to single points here, hence why I considered your earlier post bait.



This is an entire thread about retainers giving advantages:
-More space
-More slots for selling
-Gil via ventures
-Faster/more chance at Dyes via ventures


and you change that suposition to ''retainers only give the advantage of more space''; then proceed to ''counter'' that and say that retainers are only there for convienience.
So, what happened to all their other advantages?



Even on the subtopic of the inventoryspace retainers provide:
I still dont see how its not an advantage to have several times more space available.

Selling items right away means you are at the mercy of the current market price. Perhaps overnight half the server decided to farm that item you wanted to sell. You are now selling it at 1/10 the former price.
Wait a week and you could sell it for the 'usual' price again.



Hoarding you say? Hoarding is collecting items you dont have an actual need for. Perhaps maybe, maybe, maybe you might need it, some day.
That is not the same as knowing you will have a need for an item in the future.

Several times in the past few days I tried to follow your advice and see what happend. Several times in the past few days did I find myself without the raw materials I needed for HQ items. Or without the item at all (I had converted the raw materials into something else).

Now I actually have a few spaces in my inventory free. But that is because I'm far behind on properly stocking up on the materials I require.



One last example: I had planned on buying the EX version of the Bismarck primal item, for use in the piece of furniture.
I decided now to, as ''why would I have it taking up space in my inventory when Im not going to make it right away?''

One day later, the price on the item had doubled.




If there is any wisdom in selling every item as soon as you can. If there is any wisdom in not stocking/obtaining something early on, for later use; well, if there is I'm not seeing it.

[Rath]

. About 200 (very rough estimate) tier IV materias are required for melding. Less is you take the cheap route and use III's instead. (which would still be 200x70k~ -> 14m)

Personally I dont have all crafts at 60 yet tho.


It feels to me like your view on this topic is too limited Rath. As someone with more gil on hand I could make room in my inventory because I have the gil to buy it off the market (and lose gil in the process, by saving time).
However someone that is still leveling from 1-50 (60) or simply doesnt have a lot of gil does not have that luxury.

For them stocking on resources means they spend time so that they can save gil, or save time when they need to make their items.


I dont understand why your only choosing to respond to single points here, hence why I considered your earlier post bait.



This is an entire thread about retainers giving advantages:
-More space
-More slots for selling
-Gil via ventures
-Faster/more chance at Dyes via ventures


and you change that suposition to ''retainers only give the advantage of more space''; then proceed to ''counter'' that and say that retainers are only there for convienience.
So, what happened to all their other advantages?



Even on the subtopic of the inventoryspace retainers provide:
I still dont see how its not an advantage to have several times more space available.

Selling items right away means you are at the mercy of the current market price. Perhaps overnight half the server decided to farm that item you wanted to sell. You are now selling it at 1/10 the former price.
Wait a week and you could sell it for the 'usual' price again.



Hoarding you say? Hoarding is collecting items you dont have an actual need for. Perhaps maybe, maybe, maybe you might need it, some day.
That is not the same as knowing you will have a need for an item in the future.

Several times in the past few days I tried to follow your advice and see what happend. Several times in the past few days did I find myself without the raw materials I needed for HQ items. Or without the item at all (I had converted the raw materials into something else).

Now I actually have a few spaces in my inventory free. But that is because I'm far behind on properly stocking up on the materials I require.



One last example: I had planned on buying the EX version of the Bismarck primal item, for use in the piece of furniture.
I decided now to, as ''why would I have it taking up space in my inventory when Im not going to make it right away?''

One day later, the price on the item had doubled.




If there is any wisdom in selling every item as soon as you can. If there is any wisdom in not stocking/obtaining something early on, for later use; well, if there is I'm not seeing it.

Okay your first point. 200 materia is from where. I did not state max-melded. I easily HQ, with all NQ materials, without having used up all the material they provided. I have not even touched the main or offhands yet. I will not meld those until I see new recipe requirements. I made the il160 bodies quite easily without needing max melds or HQ materials. It was kind of a let down actually. These items also sit on the MB and don't sell, but oh well.

Second point. I reply on my phone at times, and as such, I do a quick reply. I will usually fill out that reply later at home, if I think there is any reason to say anything else. Your other points in that reply were logical and reasonable statements. I was going to say as such when I got home, but this reply was here first.

Your next point. This entire thread is about retainer advantages yes. So, for ventures, it requires a lot of seals to constantly send out more then 2 retainers. Someone doing this does nothing else, so what are they selling then? Besides the items they get from ventures. If all you are doing is running dungeons or crafting for seal turn-ins, there is no real advantage there.

Selling more then 40 items on the market board takes a lot of crafting. I do not bother replying to this as I am hard-pressed to stock 40/40 due to things selling quickly. There are often times I am about to do something and have to tell my FC to hold on while I craft a few replacement items. They laugh and tell me to let someone else sell something, but my market is my market lol, so they wait. This does not take long at all, but it is still annoying and I cannot see people keeping that many retainers full unless they have items that just do not sell. In which case, they just ran out of storage space and needed to list it.

Gil via ventures. Well, it takes a lot of seals to keep that many retainers doing ventures. Sure, you make some gil selling items when they are new, but it dies down and those retainers usually stop being sent out. I have a friend with 4 and he begs for dungeon drops when we run. We give them to him, but he does not make much gil off of them.

Dyes, rare dyes are untradeable and are for glamour purposes. Yes you can sell the dye if someone trades you an item, but they offer no advantage in the game at all.

This leaves me with one last point about retainers. The extra storage space. This is what most people actually use them for. The rest are excuses people give to try and get more for free. This is a convenience. Most people that reply about the space and say they never run out get told "You obviously do not craft" and then when they mention there lower craft levels get told something like "end-game crafting requires....don't talk unless you know". Those sort of comments are contradictory to your comments about needing the space when you are leveling up, which I actually agree uses more space then once you are done leveling. But only if you are doing multiple crafts all at once, to save yourself time and effort later. Which, is a convenience.

Based on all of your posts earlier, I had assumed you were a 60 crafter. Now I realize that was a mistake. Every reply to you was under that assumption. Your talk of only listing expensive items and such reinforced this assumption.

As a dedicated high end crafter I can afford to only keep a few materials around. (that is, if I wanted to increase my costs/reduce my income) It is precisely the low level crafters that dont have much gil that really need to stock up on materials.

I just trash those. I do not have enough retainer slots to sell 40k items that may or may not sell in a few days. Something to do with limited amount of selling slots per retainer I believe. For which you need to pay to get more of.

You trash 40k items and yet stockpile skins to save gil? Those materials you are making HQ are not needed once you are 60 in all crafts if you meld with the materia they give you. HQ mats just become redundant or allow you to use an inefficient rotation.

If you choose not to use those materia, they will be needed. But you made that choice, SE did not force it upon you or anyone else, nor did they force stocking HQ and NQ materials because of it. They give us 1 of each tier IV and one tier IV of your choice for the 58 and 60 crafting quests. This materia was more then enough to meld my gear to allow crafting without HQ materials. The il160 1 star recipes are no harder then 4 star recipes were to anyone that had max-melded artisan previously. This time, they give you the materia, precise touch, maker's mark, and do not require max-melding.

Do I think they should charge for space? No, do I believe it is p2w, not even close. There are tons of ways to use your time and make gil in this game. Paying for a run because you got lucky and your 5th retainer brought home a fat cat that you sold for 4mil gil gets you? Embarassed, is what it should get you. What it does get you? The need to find another fat cat before you get stuck again!