As a male gamer, thank you for not oversexualizing every female NPC

[DreadRabbit]

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Shiva

You realize in most of the games she's almost naked, right?

Yes, however we're discussing FF14 specifically. So I just assumed Shiva in the context of FF14. Her outfit re-dyed would make a killer mage outfit for those into that kind of styling. Really the only revealing part are her thighs, which anyone running around in the bikinis are already showing. Could release that version and a more conservative version. Ice themed outfits all around.

[Eidolon]

Seriously, why does this creep me out SO MUCH? There's just... something disturbing at this o_o

[Vyshan]

This game needs more skimpy armor, imo.

[Amelia_Pond_Behemoth]

I really didn't expect the topic to be focusing more on PC costumes. We have enough control over our appearances, so that's not the issue. We don't have control over the NPC's and that's where I wanted to praise SE for being sensible about them.

[Samcaesar]

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Isn't that the girl that was notably popular popular on 4chan..? Not exactly the person you want to get morals from considering well.. 4chan.

Anyways, we're expecting an adult woman in real life wearing a "Sexy outfit" has made that decision of her own will, because well, she's capable of wanting things herself, she's an adult. A video game character is not, nor ever able to express themselves, hence why sexualization of women NPCs (Especially when the men NPCs don't get the same treatment) is creepy and irritating, and should be avoided when it clearly doesn't make sense (Because then it gets tacky and a little gross).

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Eh, it happens with forums, don't worry about it too much.

That said.. Can anyone else think of a girl NPC with a unique look in heavy armor? I can really only think of Lucia and Livia, and I'm not a fan of Livia's armor too much.

[Nadirah]

Yes, however we're discussing FF14 specifically. So I just assumed Shiva in the context of FF14. Her outfit re-dyed would make a killer mage outfit for those into that kind of styling. Really the only revealing part are her thighs, which anyone running around in the bikinis are already showing. Could release that version and a more conservative version. Ice themed outfits all around.

Could definitely go for that.

[Kosmos992k]

The Great Straw Man appears again!

You just don't feel like responding. I get very tired of people thinking that they are on moral high ground because they prefer their NPCs and PCs to be dressed as chaste as possible. I also can't help but laugh at hose who feel that more skimpy gear in a fantasy game somehow spoils the world, or their immersion or whatever. it's ridiculous.

Different people have different thresholds for their suspension of disbelief.

What's difficult to understand about that?

I mean, if you have people engaging in mortal combat and one person is wearing full body armor and the other is wearing a bikini... how is it not natural for someone to question how the person wearing the bikini isn't getting scratched to hell and back? That's something you learned to accept and suspend your disbelief on. Not everyone is like that.

Suspend your disbelief upon logging in, you are a warrior of light fighting enemies that could vaporize normal adventurers. Clearly - based on the various metal and fabric armor sets in the game - actual coverage, or quantity of material is NOT related to the ability of said armor to protect us. In which case, your argument about engaging in mortal combat in a bikini is moot.

[Samcaesar]

You know, thinking about the primals and how they look/what they wear, I'm a little bit frustrated that the "boy" and "girl" primals in this game kinda fall under the whole "Monster men and sexy/cute monster women". Like.. Would it have killed SE to make Bismarck or Ravana a girl (And well, basically keep them looking the same)? I'd kill for an equally monstrous looking "girl" primal, one that lacks a super curvy body. Like.. While I hate WoW's armor choices, at least I think Therazane was a pretty good job at making a monstrous looking "earth mother".

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It's pretty darn annoying whenever men have actual armor and girl's have metal bikinis in fantasy settings, heck it's pretty darn tasteless 9/10 times. I get very tired of people who act like NPCs and PCs with gear made by people in the real world act like there isn't some kind of either just boring or (at least a bit) demeaning factor (while the men NPCs/PCs more often than not are dressed much more sensibly or at least in an outfit meant for sex appeal) that factors into it.

Actually, plenty of adventurers could do our jobs, with the exception of fighting Ascians and primals which we can do because of Hydaelyn's blessing and the Echo. If the "bikini armor" is completely reasonable, why on earth do we see only girl PCs being made to wear it in games? Fact of the matter is in most fantasy settings men get either actual armor (Or armor made massively bulky for the aesthetic of "protective armor"), while girls get "armor" that's told to work just because of "magic" or whatever. If you create a fantasy setting where the women are all wearing "battle bikinis" then why on earth aren't the men doing the same, in fact why aren't the girls wearing actual armor while the men are? That's the immersion breaking qualities people talk about.

[Zyrusticae]

You just don't feel like responding. I get very tired of people thinking that they are on moral high ground because they prefer their NPCs and PCs to be dressed as chaste as possible. I also can't help but laugh at hose who feel that more skimpy gear in a fantasy game somehow spoils the world, or their immersion or whatever. it's ridiculous.

Suspend your disbelief upon logging in, you are a warrior of light fighting enemies that could vaporize normal adventurers. Clearly - based on the various metal and fabric armor sets in the game - actual coverage, or quantity of material is NOT related to the ability of said armor to protect us. In which case, your argument about engaging in mortal combat in a bikini is moot.

You would have a point, if it weren't for the fact that literally every front line fighter NPC in the game is wearing sensible armor with the only exception of gladiators who fight for show. The glamour system is never once acknowledged in-universe outside of the quest that gives you the ability to use them.

It makes sense. I mean... it just makes sense. You can't argue against that. It's literally objectively more sensible for people to be making wardrobes based on their personality, their wants, their desires, their purpose, their particular needs, etc., etc., etc., than it is to just indiscriminately throw people in bikinis and speedos and call it a day. That's just good world-building. It's good lore.

What you're advocating is literally for trashing the in-universe logic in favor of what you consider aesthetically pleasing, which is where our priorities clash. Quite frankly, I think that mindset is garbage. The very best fictional universes are the ones that feel like they could have existed in an alternate reality. The ones where things are thrown in 'because sexy' just make me want to roll my eyes and go elsewhere. Note that this has nothing at all to do with morality or ethics. It's just good writing. Good world building. Fictional universes of a higher quality all invariably work towards building a cohesive and believable environment.

If a character wants to dress sexy and has reason to do so, then they can do so. But not every character is or should be like that. It's just not believable. There are all kinds of people in the universe and we need to acknowledge that. It's not just more realistic, it adds more variety which is ALWAYS a good thing. ALWAYS.

And enough with that 'moral high ground' crap already. I haven't seen a single person in this thread trying to take the 'moral high ground' by dressing chaste. That has nothing at all to do with my posts, that's for damn sure. Seriously, you didn't even read my post, did you? I don't even know why I'm trying to respond to you anymore. I'm clearly talking to a brick wall.

Oh, well, whatever. I just hope you get something out of this post.

You know, thinking about the primals and how they look/what they wear, I'm a little bit frustrated that the "boy" and "girl" primals in this game kinda fall under the whole "Monster men and sexy/cute monster women". Like.. Would it have killed SE to make Bismarck or Ravana a girl (And well, basically keep them looking the same)? I'd kill for an equally monstrous looking "girl" primal, one that lacks a super curvy body. Like.. While I hate WoW's armor choices, at least I think Therazane was a pretty good job at making a monstrous looking "earth mother".

Hah, yeah. Not surprised SE has trouble with this. Feels like Japanese artists in general fall prey to that 'female monster = pretty, male monster = monster' trope on a far more frequent basis than Western artists do. That moe craze is likely a huge factor in that. What a shame.

[Samcaesar]

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I dunno, I think it's plenty arguable that there is some moral issues with having women in nearly entirely "sexy" armor while the men get more sensible, especially whenever you know the story is written by a dude in the world we live in. I'm not gonna really go in depth with it, but I do think it's easily arguable that there is some issues with it that are inline with ethics/morality.

I mean, I suppose, but it's not even that Garuda and Shiva are "moe" they're just kinda designed with "sex appeal" in mind. I can kinda get it with Shiva, but Garuda's appeared in lots of different ways.. And the people summoning her lack a crap ton of sexual dimorphism so it doesn't make much sense imho. Plus Garuda has apparently looked pretty monstrous in some of the previous games apparently. It's a pretty annoying factor in a lot of artists in general, I mean note how often you see "Succubus" in games in general compared to "Incubus" (Heck even their appearances will change pretty frequently to not look like a super attractive male demon).