Bard and Wanderer's Minuet use it

[Cirgellon]

Do whatever you want. I'm just saying that if you're comparing yourself to bad players that doesn't make you good. If you used wm properly you'd do higher dps than what you do now. That's just mathematically true. You don't wanna use it, fine. But you not using it is a net loss no matter what comparisons you try to make.

If you can prove that statement, I'll change my mind. Do you main bard? Do you have parses and maybe a rotation you are using? I have yet to see an increase in any real fights. I tried it before and after the changes. Ogcd usage and auto attack elimination, all with less mobility = no damage increase for me.

[Malevicton]

If you can prove that statement, I'll change my mind. Do you main bard? Do you have parses and maybe a rotation you are using? I have yet to see an increase in any real fights. I tried it before and after the changes. Ogcd usage and auto attack elimination, all with less mobility = no damage increase for me.

Here's a video from a better brd than myself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Ub0DVUp2c

One of the first lines of the video: "Let's get one thing straight, Wanderer's Minuet is not an option"

Besides that, let me turn the question back around: do you have any theorycrafting or comparitive parses (not to terrible players) that prove in any way that it's a dps loss? Anything to convince me other than "I think I'm a good brd and my gut says it's bad"? You can still use your ogcd, just not 2 per attack, auto attack's are easily made up for by the dmg buff, and mobility is just a playstyle preference with no bearing on your dps.

[AdamFyi]

Which is exactly why that wouldn't be proof of anything. If I post a better parse without WM, you just come with these conspiracies.

"I will say you are wrong and you need to post proof!... Real intelligent...

I was only repeating what small information you gave to us;

I play the class. It's my main. I'm not getting a dps increase.

Again, word of mouth is not reliable. That is literally the only "proof" you gave us. You say that you do more damage without Wanderer's Minuet. So, give us these numbers you claim to be better, and then we can compare it to this other person who actually used WM.

[Cirgellon]

Did you open the video? :P

I edited my last post but I don't have sound at work. My headphones are broke and I can't listen to it without them. The video doesn't seem to have a comparison or a parse though. It looks like you are taking his word for it while not taking mine... I play the class. I see the dps... It's not like Im arguing from your PoV, as someone who doesn't play the class. That's why I'm asking you where you are getting your information. It clearly isn't coming from first hand knowledge.

I didn't even argue with you on which was better. I said that I don't have more dps with WM. If you can show me that it's better as you aim, I will change my opinion of it. There is no argument if you don't have that information. You are telling me that I'm wrong without even playing the class...

"You don't lose dps when you have to move and can no longer use skills on the move! It's just a prefernce!"... Honestly, I don't even know why I continued after that lol...

[Malevicton]

"You don't lose dps when you have to move and can no longer use skills on the move! It's just a prefernce!"... Honestly, I don't even know why I continued after that lol...

If I reworded all of your arguments in a different context I could make you look dumb as well, but that gets us nowhere.

Watch the vid with sound and come back. The vid is my argument, and right now you're just arguing against what my argument "looks like". Whether you're right or wrong that's not a great position to argue from.

In the spirit of rewording arguments: "If I ignore your argument then my argument is better!" I could've told you before all this started that I can't convince you if you just cover your ears and shout "LALALALA" to any evidence I propose. If we ignore physics then I can prove that gravity doesn't exist, but where I'm arguing from is important.

[AdamFyi]

It looks like you are taking his word for it while not taking mine... I play the class. I see the dps.

He's asking you to post your proof of your claim that you deal more damage without Wanderer's Minuet. There's literally nothing to support your claim other than what you have said. It isn't reliable proof saying that you just do. And who's to say you arent going to intentionally sabotage your WM parse just to prove a point?

[Cirgellon]

He's asking you to post your proof of your claim that you deal more damage without Wanderer's Minuet. There's literally nothing to support your claim other than what you have said. It isn't reliable proof saying that you just do. And who's to say you arent going to intentionally sabotage your WM parse?

Which is exactly why that wouldn't be proof of anything. If I post a better parse without WM, you just come with these conspiracies. My proof is that I play the class and the people who disagree with me don't.

"I will say you are wrong and you need to post proof!... Real intelligent...

If I reworded all of your arguments in a different context I could make you look dumb as well, but that gets us nowhere.

Watch the vid with sound and come back. The vid is my argument, and right now you're just arguing against what my argument "looks like". Whether you're right or wrong that's not a great position to argue from.

In the spirit of rewording arguments: "If I ignore your argument then my argument is better!" No shit, I could've told you before all this started that I can't convince you if you just cover your ears and shout "LALALALA" to any evidence I propose.

Then try rewording the mobility thing differently... Go ahead...

So does the video have comparisons or is it just a guy making claims? Again, the video doesn't show any proof... Sound won't change that... "evidence" lol... School must have been hard for you.

[Malevicton]

Which is exactly why that wouldn't be proof of anything. If I post a better parse without WM, you just come with these conspiracies.

"I will say you are wrong and you need to post proof!... Real intelligent...

you could post it with a vid :P

What kind of proof do you expect from me? And why is it not fair to expect the same burden of proof from you?

If you want a legitimate discussion, cool it with the insults. They don't make any point, they just distract from the actual subject.

[Malevicton]

I said that I don't have more dps with WM. I said I'm out dpsing others in groups. You said I'm doing it wrong. I asked you for proof that I'm doing it wrong. You refused to provide it.... What kind of proof do you want from me exactly? Are you saying I'm actually parsing better with WM but just lying to you? I really don't get what your point is.

Specifically, I said I would change what I was doing if you could show me that I'm doing it wrong. As in, someone parsing more with wm and a rotation to do so. I can't really change my mind on it if I don't know how to use it properly. If you are going to claim that I'm wrong, why wouldn't I ask for further explanation?

It's very clear that you are just an argumentative clown who is talking out of his ass though.

Well AdamFyi posted a parse vid. The vid I posted went into a lot of detail, but you can't listen to it (how was I supposed to know?).

I'm not claiming that you're lying, but by saying you do more dps without wm you're making a positive claim, and those require evidence. Asking someone to back up their claim is not the same as accusing them of lying. I don't have a point by asking you to back up your claims, we just need to get past that before we can really even start a debate. Your argument so far is tautological. You have yet to make any actual arguments; all you've done is state claims and then say that you're right.

Again, cool it with the insults. They don't make your point any more or less legitimate, it's just needlessly aggressive. I haven't done or said anything to insult you personally (except maybe accuse you of overusing ellipses; sorry if that was over the line). I'd appreciate the same level of civility and respect.

Mal, you aren't even getting responses anymore. You didn't post any proof and you don't play bard. You can't be taken seriously...

I did post proof, you just can't listen to it. Then AdamFyi posted proof and I referenced his. So far you're the only one refusing to post proof, because me asking you to provide evidence to your claims is apparently some sort of personal insult. Burden of proof isn't some misdirect tactic I'm using. It's a thing in debates. If you make a positive claim, then the burden of proof is on you.

Again... please stop with the insults. So far you've insulted me at the end of each post for quite a while now. Each time I've politely asked you to stop. They serve no purpose except to try and elicit an immature response from me. There's no feasible way to think that they're improving the quality of discussion. I understand if you're agitated or annoyed, those things happen in arguments, but after me pointing it out and requesting you to stop it becomes less and less justifiable.