Midgardsormr's Sorrow [SPOILER]

[Samcaesar]

he is the father of them, i wouldn't be shocked if he is strong enough to hide from nearly anyone.

i personally think it was pretty even, the only truely bad dragon was nidhogg, we find out only a small part of each group truely hate each other.

I mean, maybe mortals couldn't sense him too well, but I find it sooo odd that Hraesvelgr wasn't all "And uh.. Dad what the heck are you doing here". They're such aether attuned beings, you'd think they'd be notice to sense such a unique presence such as father of all dragons.

I dunno, I think the story really poorly handles Nidhogg, like Hraesveglr basically could rein him in whenever.. And yet didn't. Nor does it explain why the heck Midgardsormr or Hraesvelgr couldn't just counter-act Nidhogg's song with their own version of it. Plus I feel it's kinda annoying whenever we help Ishgard kill tons of dragons (Not knowing if they're just living in the Dravania area or attack Ishgard) left and right and we're suppose to be that "neutral" factor to the war. I really hope Ishgard's habits of killing/attack any and all dragons doesn't immediately stop with the end of 3.0, or I'm calling out some shenanigans.

[EdwinLi]

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Well you have to remember Midgar is still in a very weak state in 3.0. As mentioned back in 2.5, Midgar is still recovering so the amount of power he has is very minor which can prevent anyone from noticing his presence. The largest size he can take form in now is the mount form but that is only at the end of 3.0 when he has gain back a slight amount of his powers.

As for Ishgard's hatred of dragons born from a false belief.....

The habit won't stop as shown through Dark Knight Job quest and is even mentioned at the end of 3.0 it will take generations before this habit stops and peace can be obtained.

[Musashidon]

I really hope Ishgard's habits of killing/attack any and all dragons doesn't immediately stop with the end of 3.0, or I'm calling out some shenanigans.

i don't see either side easily just giving up fighting completely. would also be wierd (killing dragons in the new area's when are suppose to be at peace)

can the other great wyrms cancel out each others roars? at most i can see midgard being able to but i see him as a neutral party (as in he won't stop the fighting but he won't help it either he shows this a lot towards us too)

[Samcaesar]

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I mean, is he really? He manages to seal the blessing of Hydaelyn, and also split himself into 3 different physical forms (Minion, Boss, and Mount), just the boss form is incredibly weak due to the whole Silvertear incident.

Eh, false belief or not, it'll be awkward if suddenly they pull a 180 and go "Dragons and heretics aren't so bad!", otherwise the Archbishop's whole deal was meaningless.

I mean, it does, but I feel the story treats Ishgard way to lightly in a lot of the crimes it commits, the whole killing of heretics, attacking harmless dragons, the widespread poverty.. Like they're all noted, but I don't think it'd really addressed properly, like even Aymeric yelling at someone for killing some unarmed heretics or threatening his own men for them wanting to kill some heretics or fleeing dragons would be appreciated, but I don't think he's ever done that.

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I dunno, the lack of a sudden reactionary burst trying to restore honor to the Ishgardian faith with their whole leader leaving or them constantly just listening to Aymeric with him going "Don't kill these guys" and all seemed odd and kinda makes me think a whole "We're good guys now!" Which is about as boring as the whole Ul'dah incident imho.

We don't exactly know if that's possible, but we do know Nidhogg was borrowing Hraesvelgr's power. Seeing as how Nidhogg does stuff with regards to controlling Estinien, why on earth can't Hraesvelgr do the same to the guy who's directly using his eye to keep him alive? I mean, plus by the end of the story you know what happens, and Middy now seems to respect us a whole lot more than he does, you'd think he'd go all "Alright I've got this now"

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You'd think masking your aetheric presence to that degree would be super hard though especially for a dragon, this is like a species that you can read into their consciousness via their eyes. I mean shoot, Ishgard could detect him still being alive through disturbances in the aether using stars, I'm sure his own children would be able to detect him too.

Eeh, it still ends up making a lot of players dislike him (I blame that a bit more on the players though >_>).

Couldn't Midgardsormr hear Nidhogg's song? Like he was the one who alerted us to that whole deal. And if it affects only members of their brood.. Well now that we've got Middy's respect and all that, I don't imagine him not being both willing nor able to sooth Nidhogg's rage.

[EdwinLi]

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Well the boss form was not his real physical form but a illusion created by his ability to manipulate Aether. Midgar is one of the most powerful being in the world of FF14 but in his weakened state he can only generate his smaller physical form being the minion and a lesser physical form being the mount.

Also, pulling a 180 isn't possible due to generations of false belief. Aymeric may be seeking to remove the hundred years of lies and restore the peace between Dravania and Ishgard along with reforming Ishgard's society but he knows full well it can't be done in a day as was mentioned in the ending of 3.0. At best we will most likely see small changes over the revealing of the truth in 3.X era but only small ones. It will be up to the next generation of Ishgardians and their children and children's children to finish what Aymeric started or destroy everything he worked for.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

words.

The way I see it is it's not all of Ishgard's fault for the crimes and other bad things that were done since forever and a day ago. The secret of who cast the first stone was guarded very well and everyone grew up with false knowledge. No one was none the wiser until we showed up and did some snooping around. Ishgard, as a city during the war and as a society, have been the way they been for ages because of a select few and said select few got the punishment they deserved. What more could be done to not make the city look like it's getting off light?

[Samcaesar]

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I mean yeah, it's a super powerful relic(I guess you could call it that?), but the point is, all Nidhogg had to do was wait, and suddenly it's body snatching time, and that's when Estinien's only occasionally using it. You'd think the creature, totally separated from his natural power source, and relying nearly entirely on someone else's power to live and do what they want would be pretty susceptible to that second person's control.

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Eh, it wasn't his real physical form, but that massive body was still alive, and it showed he still had massive amounts of aether he could use. The large physical body isn't just rotting away there I'm sure of it, its just not doing much while it still recovers from have a crap ton of stuff blow up directly on it.

It shouldn't be, but plenty of Ishgardians just seem to go "Eh, makes sense to me! Just forget about that killing innocent dragons and heretics business by the way?" (Look at the way Ishgard seems to be pretty okay with suddenly helping the Moogles restore Zenith aka helping Hraesvelgr. It's funny because even in that sidequest it mentions "1000 years of animosity can't be forgotten overnight" while Ishgard seems to be pretty find forgetting that animosity suddenly). I don't think that Ishgard as a whole was written to well, and it overall places Ishgard is an overtly sympathetic light and lets them off the hook to plenty of awful things. One of the biggest issue with the whole ordeal is with the Archbiship leaving Ishgard along with the twelve most powerful, iconic men of Ishgard and Aymeric, you, and co are walking out of the situation no issue, you'd think even the three other houses would be suddenly pretty angry at our actions and all, but I don't recall anything of the sort too much. Plus, that's such an unsatisfying regrowth to the dragon/Ishgard relationship, we've done plenty of things to change the world already with things that'd take decades, and yet somehow we can't at least see some proper steps with Ishgard doing some good and helping dragon kind while also addressing the various issues a sudden start change a society like Ishgard's would face.

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It's not entirely Ishgard's fault, but you can't forget, tons of awful things were committed in either ignorance or just plan hatred, just as the dragons do the same. The Heretics still are a thing, one that enough Ishgardians believed in to make it a notable threat/presence. Like.. You can't just say "They were all completely ignorance and unknowing so the awful stuff isn't their fault" when the the heretics are also from Ishgard. Either way we ended up killing far more heretics than Ishgardians, which just seems like a failure on the story to portray Ishgard with it's own levels of problematic issues (Just like how they kinda handwaved nearly the entire population of central Coerthas being totally fine with killing a bunch of innocent people by making them jump off cliffs). Honestly, if it showed the Ishgardians taking the proper step forward before the end of 3.0 occured, maybe a few subplots where we end up attacking/stopping/killing Ishgardians desperate to hold onto their old ways. Personally I wouldn't mind us trying to go to Hraesvelgr in an attempt to help ally with him again, only to end up fighting some greedy/power hungry conservative Ishgardians trying to ruin the peace by killing Hraesvelgr and using his eyes for their own purposes. If the story wants to show Ishgard and the dragons in an equal light with regards to guilt and sympathy, we need way more quests that show Ishgard being both unapologetically bad and then punished for it, same thing we do with the Dragons. One or two more areas with friendly dragons we can interact with would be pretty nice too.

[saber_alter]

I mean, maybe mortals couldn't sense him too well, but I find it sooo odd that Hraesvelgr wasn't all "And uh.. Dad what the heck are you doing here". They're such aether attuned beings, you'd think they'd be notice to sense such a unique presence such as father of all dragons.

remember midgar outlasts almost everything on eorzea. even at a fraction of his power he can effectively do what he wants and get away with it.

I dunno, I think the story really poorly handles Nidhogg, like Hraesveglr basically could rein him in whenever.. And yet didn't.

he wanted to make amends for not seeing this betrayal before it could happen. His heart is heavy with guilt for allowing the knights 12 and thordan to kill his sister and tear out Nidhogg's eyes.

Nor does it explain why the heck Midgardsormr or Hraesvelgr couldn't just counter-act Nidhogg's song with their own version of it.

they likely could, but they have no interest in doing so. most likely the song only affects members of their brood anyway (nidhogg's children can only hear nidhogg's song, and the like.)

I really hope Ishgard's habits of killing/attack any and all dragons doesn't immediately stop with the end of 3.0, or I'm calling out some shenanigans.

according to nidhogg, the war is still on.

Couldn't Midgardsormr hear Nidhogg's song? Like he was the one who alerted us to that whole deal. And if it affects only members of their brood.. Well now that we've got Middy's respect and all that, I don't imagine him not being both willing nor able to sooth Nidhogg's rage.

remember, Midgar sits higher on the totem pole and Hraesvelgr is Nidhogg's brother. i was referring to direct descendants of those dragons (dragons lower on the totem pole.)

And nothing is going to soothe nidhogg's rancor. it has run for so long, so deep, that only the death/draconification of every living ishgardian would sate him.

[Doki]

I disliked how the group was okay with leaving Tiamat chained. Sure she wants to punish herself, but it isn't like we really TRIED to talk her out of it, or offered her alternatives.

[CGMidlander]

I disliked how the group was okay with leaving Tiamat chained. Sure she wants to punish herself, but it isn't like we really TRIED to talk her out of it, or offered her alternatives.

If it were up to me, I'd break the restraints just to see what Tiamat would do after telling us her sob story. lol