Ninja: Heaven-Sword (And Beyond)

[Arkenne]

What do you mean by that?

Hmm? Well, I didn't go into dept because my priorities my vary on my personal preference to what's presented on the guide, and hence conflicting in a sense that in the end might not even be important for the guide's goal: "go give a starting idea and understanding of the job"

So 'twould only add to confusion.

Buuuuut if you really wanna get into headaches:

In my personal opinion, NIN, unlike their MNK or DRG cousins, can start with whatever combo you prefer.
Tho, of course, so long its not AE...
If you start with the combo DE » SF » MU, its just as valid as if you go SF » MU » DE. Since so long you mantain it all, things will homogenize.

The only real great main difference which is actually pretty hard to notice are the oGCD timings. Specially Ninjutsu.
In the relevance of a pre-HW NIN, the opener had a very big dependance on how long has it been since you activated Huton.
Some liked to wait 15 seconds, other 10, other 5, other 8 and the most lazy ones... 0.

Depending on this wait time you would use different skills by different personal priority.

For example: if you go with 0 Huton wait time, go with MU » DE » SF » AE
Next skill you would want to go for would be DE, but by the moment you start its SE, Ninjutsu will be perfectly ready for you to use Suiton. And you will see that SF, MU and AE can perfectly fit into TA. Albeit this window pops 20 seconds after the battle started.

Want party members to hurt things hard ASAP? DE first.
Want to maximize your damage ASAP in a long fight? MU » SF first. (MU could catch 2 ticks by the time SF enters, while SF catches only 1 and takes longer to get in by the time MU enters).
Wanna go wild? Use whatever so long its not AE :v

In the end, your opener as a Ninja will have the biggest impact in the timing of both your GCDs and your oGCDs. Make sure to practice a lot with the dummies to see which one fits best for you!

[Manu-Kesna]

Ooh ok that makes sense. Thank you!

[silentwindfr]

good jobs.

@Arkenne; i'm curious, normally the dot from SF and MU are not affected by DE, right?

[Ephier]

(Dancing Edge + Kiss) * Fuma Shuriken = 1.3 * 240 = 312 potency.

That's not how that calculation works. It is multiplicative not additive. Also resistance multipliers come after potency calculation (wasp*fuma)*DE, so it would look like (1.2*240)*1.1 = 316.8, I am going to assume the game rounds down so lets go with 316.

It may be also worth noting, if you have b4b and trick attack up (this scenario is not really plausible because fuma/raiton right after a trick attack would have to be a crit because of kassatsu, just using it for illustration purposes)

Fuma (240*1.452)*1.1= 383(.328)

Raiton (360*1.21)= 435(.6)

A difference of 52 in potency

Now lets say you force a crit through kassatsu with base crit rate

Fuma ((240*1.452)*1.5)*1.1 = 574(.992)

Raiton (360*1.21)*1.5 = 653(.4)

A difference of 78 potency if you force a crit with kassatsu.

Now lets say you have 10% more crit rate than base which would result in 10% more crit damage as well

Fuma (240*1.452*1.6)*1.1 = 613(.3248)

Raiton (360*1.21)*1.6 = 696(.96)

Now a difference of 83 Potency.

As crit rate goes up the effectiveness of kassatsu raiton under trick attack goes up as well,

[LordTiberiusRex]

snip

Thanks, Ephier. I'll go ahead and quote in your post into the OP and edit what's already in place. Care to throw in a source link on that topic? I may need to do a bit of reviewing on other things outside of the guide.

Off-topic: I just rediscovered DFO is alive and under new ownership. Happy day there.

[Ephier]

Thanks, Ephier. I'll go ahead and quote in your post into the OP and edit what's already in place. Care to throw in a source link on that topic? I may need to do a bit of reviewing on other things outside of the guide.

Off-topic: I just rediscovered DFO is alive and under new ownership. Happy day there.

Source link is the calculator Microsoft provides for windows 8.1. \o/

But in all seriousness multiplicative buffs is common knowledge, but cannot remember where I learned about resistances.

[Ephier]

The crit damage calculation came from Dervy. (Can't edit post on phone)

[Artenyan]

Hello,
The slashing debuff is a reduction from target's "resistance", it should not be treated as increased damage on the skill but as increased damage on the target.
This would be: Fuma = (240*1.2) / 0.9 = 320
While Raiton is (360*1) / 1 = 360 since there are neither damage buffs (x1 multiplier) nor reduction from target's resistance (Divide by 1 for the resistance).
It may not look like a big increase but it does matter if you take all the multiplier from others stats, especially if you take the mudra cd in the maths.

[Ephier]

Hello,
The slashing debuff is a reduction from target's "resistance", it should not be treated as increased damage on the skill but as increased damage on the target.
This would be: Fuma = (240*1.2) / 0.9 = 320
While Raiton is (360*1) / 1 = 360 since there are neither damage buffs (x1 multiplier) nor reduction from target's resistance (Divide by 1 for the resistance).
It may not look like a big increase but it does matter if you take all the multiplier from others stats, especially if you take the mudra cd in the maths.

Oo thank you for the info. Yea I know small differences matter especially when going through big multipliers. Thank you for fixing my math. \o/

[Odowla]

Also, good thing to remember - if a warrior who will Storms Eye is in the party, Aeolian Edge is a better opener than Dancing Edge, if you open DE first. (I usually do dot opener in this case, however.)