Bard and Wanderer's Minuet use it

[Malevicton]

Because I didn't roll and main a bard to have the playstyle completely change in the expansion. I'll see if it's now at least useable after the fixes, but I'm primarily going to continue playing the way I want. Thanks.

I know it's already been said, but wow. I'm amazed and horrified that this is getting any sort of support, let alone that it seems to be the prevailing opinion in this thread. This is practically the definition of childish. There are perfectly reasonable ways to express dissatisfaction, and this is not close to being one of them.

I don't expect everyone to be super-pro-elite all the time, but there's a huge difference between expecting perfect execution, and expecting people to not intentionally lower their contribution. If this attitude really takes hold among bards, the rest of us are not going to point our frustration at SE; we're gonna direct it at brds. Please don't make yourselves a hated job. It's entirely avoidable.

[Wavaryen]

snip

That is not saying much. This community has always abused classes they don't feel is up to par, or does not equal to what they want in groups. The whole community thing, and respect to each other has been lost long ago. We will play bard how we enjoy it, and if we get kicked out of groups. That is a small price to pay for what we find enjoyable.

[Garlyle]

That is not saying much. This community has always abused classes they don't feel is up to par, or does not equal to what they want in groups. The whole community thing, and respect to each other has been lost long ago. We will play bard how we enjoy it, and if we get kicked out of groups. That is a small price to pay for what we find enjoyable.

Would you accept a summoner or scholar not using their pet because they "don't like managing it"?
A paladin not turning on shield oath when tanking because "I can hold aggro just fine"?
A black mage not using enochian because "I didn't sign up to manage a stack"?
Hell, would you accept another bard not using Wind Bite/Venomous Shot because "I'm not here to play a DoT class"?
etc etc

The price you're paying isn't just what you're paying - it's what you're making everyone else that you play with pay too, because you're choosing to sabotage your own capabilities, so they have to make up for yours.

[LazyC]

Would you accept a summoner or scholar not using their pet because they "don't like managing it"?
A paladin not turning on shield oath when tanking because "I can hold aggro just fine"?
etc etc

The price you're paying isn't just what you're paying - it's what you're making everyone else that you play with pay too, because you're choosing to sabotage your own capabilities, so they have to make up for yours.

not that i directly agree either way overall ( i do dislike WM but whatever)

but this comparison doesnt work, summoners deal with pets right from the start 1-60 (i think? do they? never played one), and if they dont like dealing with pets then they wouldn't bother leveling it all the way to 60.

Paladins obviously get shield oath far later then they probably should(no idea why SE did this) its early enough that you get very used to it and it doesnt change how the class plays by having it on, like WM does.

[Malevicton]

power snip

First of all, saying that the community (which by the way is not one cohesive thing; you're a part of it as well, it has no consistent ideology or definition) has "always abused classes they don't feel [are] up to par" is a pretty loaded statement worth its own discussion. It's definitely not something you can just throw out there as being axiomatically true.

The second part... well you didn't really even have a point as far as I can tell. You just said that you'll continue playing in a way you know upsets the people around you, and they can just deal with it. You're not doing a good job of convincing me this isn't childish behavior. If you agree that you're being childish and just don't care then I guess we're at an impasse.

You're not going to convince me that it's okay to intentionally sabotage group content for no other reason than it being fun for you. There's a term for that: griefing.

[Jadedsins]

.k

My husband point was pretty clear.

From both of the FF MMOs. The Community has always had a problem with Elitism. They would not invite classes that were consider weak. Both Him and I find it laughable, that people would talk about griefing the community, when players have been doing it for years. As the saying goes, A few bad apples right?

You or anyone else don't have a right to tell other people how to play his or her class. Every time that you queue up to a dungeon, you accept the fact that people will play how they want of all skill levels. You don't have a right to say what they can and can't do. You don't even have a right to argue with them.

If you want the rights of a "good" group. Make your own, add your own rules.I would never argue with you on that line. It is your group your rules. This community is so sad at times that even for story line groups, My husband was kicked out of groups right at the start when HS first came out.

[Malevicton]

You or anyone else don't have a right to tell other people how to play his or her class. Every time that you queue up to a dungeon, you accept the fact that people will play how they want of all skill levels. You don't have a right to say what they can and can't do. You don't even have a right to argue with them.

Umm. Excuse me? I absolutely have that right. And what you're talking about isn't "skill level" it's intentionally playing subpar. I can deal with low skill level.

I actually have all of those rights. You have the right to ignore me, but I totally have the right to say "You need to use WM."

[Jadedsins]

Umm. Excuse me? I absolutely have that right. And what you're talking about isn't "skill level" it's intentionally playing subpar. I can deal with low skill level.

I actually have all of those rights. You have the right to ignore me, but I totally have the right to say "You need to use WM."

No you don't, If you can get the group to agree with you and kick them. That is fine, You have no right to tell others how to play when you queue for a dungeon or raid. You pick ease of access, at the cost of not being able to pick the rules for that group.

[Adire]

No you don't, If you can get the group to agree with you and kick them. That is fine, You have no right to tell others how to play when you queue for a dungeon or raid. You pick ease of access, at the cost of not being able to pick the rules for that group.

Dungeons involve teamwork. Teamwork involves discussing how to best accomplish a goal. A team member telling another team member to stop when they are intentionally sabotaging their DPS, therefore hurting the team as a whole, is perfectly reasonable.

I don't care what your playstyle is. Outright refusing to use WM's raw damage increase when all buffs/skills are up or when you don't need to move a lot just because you don't like the skill is self sabotage and team sabotage.

[Malevicton]

No you don't, If you can get the group to agree with you and kick them. That is fine, You have no right to tell others how to play when you queue for a dungeon or raid. You pick ease of access, at the cost of not being able to pick the rules for that group.

Y'know, I don't like the animations for fire spells anymore. I'm just gonna cast blizzard3 from now on. I know it's terrible, and that my team will never think it's okay for me to behave that way, but it's more fun to me. And neither you nor anyone else has the right to even argue with me about it. Because you chose ease of access, which means literally anything I do that's not explicitly covered by ToS is completely immune to criticism.