o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Ferth]

what do you think they'll ruin. I stopped crafting because every time you go to make something there are 100 road blocks in the way. Try to make a rank 20 lth item that requires rank 30 lth parts.you have to buy parts from a higher rank lth crafter to make something you should be able to make alone(example: the use of raptor sinew cords in low lvl recipes).not everyone has 10 mules that they can store a billion mats on. the streamlining is whats gonna make it better for "me", you can argue all you want but that's how i feel and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Those are the same issues that almost everyone is glad they are changing. Have you read any of the posts in this thread? Or did you read the title, figure people were against any and all changes being implemented and decided you needed to chime in that these changes are all great?

I have not heard anyone argue in favor of the wonky skill requirements on certain parts. I barely play right now because I largely don't enjoy it. The things that are actively preventing me from crafting or for ranking up a combat class are not even remotely being addressed in these changes.

These changes will not make more people suddenly craft hempen doublets even though any idiot could do it with 5 minutes of effort. Because there will still be no reason from the standpoint of gaining skill, and largely no reason from a demand perspective either because even with the new materia system no one is going to wear a rank 6 shirt for longer than a day. Hell probably not even longer than an hour, unless through some totally bizarre insight SE makes it's possible materia crazy good.

The argument is not whether they should change things or not change things. The argument is about the degree to which things should be changed.

You need to stop treating this discussion like everyone who disagrees with your sentiment of all the changes being great or perfect or good as somehow being of the standpoint that all change is then bad.

We want the crafting system to change too... We just still want the aspects we enjoy in crafting to still bear relevance.

You are rank 20 in leather so even with the roadblocks you've come across you still haven't reach the biggest road black, the totally skewed rate of progression... Remember when your GLA hit rank 32 and you went from needing 38,000 sp for the next rank to needing 45,000? That's the same thing that happens to crafters. Only you don't have a leve exploit or parties or raids to get you to your next rank quicker... You've got a shitload of junk to craft. Whether that junk is going to be toad leather straps or toad leather harnesses... you're still gonna have to craft a bloody lot of them.

And unless the rate of spiritbind is stupidly fast, or the success chance for multiple materia bindings is stupidly low you still won't have a proper market for everything you will need to make to continue to gain rank in your craft.

They can streamline the process. I think the majority of us want that. But this isn't a streamlining... this is a gutting.

[Sorel]

They can streamline the process. I think the majority of us want that. But this isn't a streamlining... this is a gutting.

Ferth, I know you as rational poster who is not prone to exaggeration. I weigh the opinions in your posts more heavily than I do most others.

So when you say that these changes are gutting the crafting system. It makes me take pause.

The word gutting has two meanings that are applicable to this discussion.

gutting

1. Removing or destroying completely the internal parts of (a building or other structure).
2. Removing or extracting the most important parts of (something) in a damaging or destructive manner.

So I have to ask ... do you consider parts & nuggets the most important parts of the crafting system? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm asking an honest question.

[Physic]

Ferth, I know you as rational poster who is not prone to exaggeration. I weigh the opinions in your posts more heavily than I do most others.

So when you say that these changes are gutting the crafting system. It makes me take pause.

The word gutting has two meanings that are applicable to this discussion.

gutting

1. Removing or destroying completely the internal parts of (a building or other structure).
2. Removing or extracting the most important parts of (something) in a damaging or destructive manner.

So I have to ask ... do you consider parts & nuggets the most important parts of the crafting system? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm asking an honest question.

its more like this, you have a car, that runs slow, the engine doesnt work well, and requires a lot more gas, you take it to the mechanic, and he says, i dont like your cooling system so then he says hes wants to complete remove it and add an all new cooling system.

The cooling system wasnt the problem, and changing it can effect the overall performance of your car, causing it to break down rapidly, now its possible, that his new cooling system may end up better than your old one, but the old one is deeply ingrained in your car, and changing it without screwing everything else up seems tricky, not to mention it still wont dadress your main problems with your car

theoretically changing parts could be fine, but from what they have said, it seems like it will effect a whole lot of things, that people didnt really need changed.

Ill tell you the most skill driven least spammy an interesting part of synthesis was finished parts, because you had to balance quality durability, and your own luck/ risk when deciding when to touch up an item. In this new system that is gone.

hqing parts is a much simpler equation, get highest quality possible with out breaking, hope for the best. Its a lot less interactive, and less entertaining.

there is a number of issues with the current plan, some they may have addressed behind the scenes, but overall, i think they dont care much at this point, i think they figure, whatever system they create people will adapt.

The one advantage of the changes does seeem to be with gatherers, in theory, their value should go up. but then again the value of items could just drop, i guess we ll see.

[Ferth]

This is a difficult question to answer adequately because the importance of parts is tricky to understand. And let me first say that I completely understand why people are frustrated with parts in their current form. I am too.

I've explained this in past posts as well but parts do multiple things:

Parts provide a convenient recipe for crafters to grind through specific ranks.

They expand the quantity of base materials giving crafters more items to grind on as they refine them further.

They add depth to finished recipes and crafting as a whole.

And this is the iffy one right now, they provide a tradeable resource between different craft classes.

Mostly what I can gather from other peoples postings (and my own issues with the current crafting system) is that the main problems with parts is the difficulty to acquire them, either through rarity (it only drops from a certain mob) it's difficulty (to make this rank 20 item i need a part that is rank 40) or it's scarcity (no one makes it or sells it.)

I'm going to add to that an incredible number of parts with very narrow applications.

I 100% agree that all of those problems need to be addressed and fixed. But I also 100% agree that this can be done without the fullscale removal of parts.

FFXIV has tremendous potential for an incredibly deep economy, but right now most of that potential is implemented very poorly.

The fixes I see announced ignore the potential depth, ignore the poor implementation and instead just focus on the fact that at some point in the system it snags. So instead of going in and fixing the implementation, they are scrapping it entirely.

This is a very crude example, and for that I apologize, but basically we have a car that is making a troubling noise. Instead of taking this car to a mechanic, finding what the problem is and fixing the problem... we've thrown the car away, and bought a moped.

[WillRiker]

removing parts and nuggets is a great thing if you are going for HQ.

[Ferth]

I'm not even really against the removal of nuggets Per Se. It all depends on what they change the ore:ingot ratio to.

And potentially ingots could be a nice streamline if ingots are then used in more parts.

Mostly, I don't think SE is giving us enough information on the changes... I think this discussion and the HQ discussion would lose alot of steam if SE made a Crafting Changes Blueprint like they did with combat. Crafting is a big enough portion of the game, I think, that it warrants one.

If we knew the overall plan we could comment more on the effectiveness of specific changes.

The first announcement for planned changes sent off a red flag for me because if you really look at the whole scenario of the lower ranks you'll realize that people aren't making these low level items for myriad reasons, most of which won't be fixed by the changes they've announced and some of which have little or nothing to do with crafting itself.

I'm the first to admit I'm a pretty pessimistic guy. And while I have a lot of respect for the Dev Team and Yoshida, that's not going to stop me from questioning decisions that don't make sense to me.

[Okiura]

if you look back 600+ posts you'll see that i'm against some of these changes including the removal of parts and the need for a sub class.

Most ppl including myself are not against the streamlining of the parts system. Nuggets is a good example of streamlining, they are unnessary step. Another example would be plates and sheets we don't really need both. IMO this is what should be addressed rather then removing it all together. if they did this the recipes wouldnt really be any more complicated then SE current plan, and the lvl of detail the orignal system would still be there.

[Xenor]

Man, announcing that HQ change now is one of the biggest mistakes SE has made in months. The economy on my server has ground to a halt since that announcement. Nothing is moving in the wards and it will remain that way until 1.20 when the HQ change is implemented. The new 1.19 items will be the only things selling, even if they end up being inferior to current +2/3 items.

[Esk]

Ok back from work, lot of catching up to do so I might be being a bit slow here..
But did we get some info off Yoshi/Devs or was it just the Materia info?

But Materia looks to go a long way to solving the economic concerns but dose nothing to help with the gutting of the crafting system, removal of guilds and them ignoring the actual crafting process.

[Arcell]

Mostly, I don't think SE is giving us enough information on the changes... I think this discussion and the HQ discussion would lose alot of steam if SE made a Crafting Changes Blueprint like they did with combat. Crafting is a big enough portion of the game, I think, that it warrants one.

If we knew the overall plan we could comment more on the effectiveness of specific changes.

I 100% agree. Every time they release new info, it ends up not being nearly as bad as everyone thought it was going to be. People complained about the ease of making items, then they released info on the materia system which really sheds a lot of light on that decision. I'm sure there's a lot more info they haven't given us yet which would make a lot of this seem not nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be.