I chose BRD for swift gameplay, if I wanted to cast I would have chosen a Mage.

[Verius_Nox]

From 1.X, 2.0 into 3.0 I played bard, and Bard has never "casted" anything except Foe, Mage's Ballad and swiftsong. Not sure where u got the idea that they were hybrid casters. Their attacks have always been instant like every other physical damage DPS. Until now...

Also, you are among the small percent of bards who doesnt mind WM. While that's not a bad thing, please try to understand the reasoning why the rest of us are upset.

1.0 BRD required CNJ as a mandatory lv15 sub class. You casted.

Honestly 1.5s cast speed is amazing, and leaves you with so much room to sidestep and perform oGCD moves because your GCD is still 2.5s. You're still infinitely more mobile with your DPS.

[Velhart]

Depends on the change and whether there was prior discussion within the community about it. It would have been one thing if BRD players had asked for casting times on their abilities in exchange for a damage boost all through ARR. the discussion would turn out very differently and you'd have people giving suggestions on how to improve it while others would be content with what was given to them.

This was in essence a change no one asked for implemented in a way that is a copy-pasted mechanic with MCH with no cohesiveness to the gameplay BRD mains know and love.

So pretty much what I said. A lot of times, developers make changes to a class no one asked for. Rather for better or worse, people naturally do not like change. Even if it was an expected one or not.

[Rekujin]

So pretty much what I said. A lot of times, developers make changes to a class no one asked for. Rather for better or worse, people naturally do not like change. Even if it was an expected one or not.

change is fine, whether it's nerfs or buffs... but when it drastically changes the play style? that's not fair on anyone who takes BRD seriously. If you told me 2 years ago that BRD would end up having cast bars, I wouldn't have played it.

[LionKing]

Git good !!!!! xD

[Velhart]

change is fine, whether it's nerfs or buffs... but when it drastically changes the play style? that's not fair on anyone who takes BRD seriously. If you told me 2 years ago that BRD would end up having cast bars, I wouldn't have played it.

It is the risk you take with a grain of salt when you play MMO's. I am not saying people are not entitled to their opinion, but they should understand at the same time things like this are going to happen to each job rather it be one year or five years down the road. Best you can do is leave constructive and well written criticism if you believe the actions they took were not in the right direction.

I am personally fine with it. Mostly because I played a lot of Marksman Hunter in WoW, which plays very similar to a casting BRD/MCH. If you asked me to pick the style non-casting or casting, I would definitely pick non-casting. The addition of the casting bar, while not done bad, just felt unnecessary. Would of been more ideal if the new abilities off BRD/MCH were charge ups with high potency and maybe longer cooldowns. Would of still shook up the rotation a lot and still would of added a level of complexity without sacrificing how the job played.

Our DPS is much better than it was in 3.0, but I thought before the jobs were released that this mode would put us in a DPS position with at least dedicated casters and just sacrifice that when we use songs/turrets. Like I said, our DPS is better and I shouldn't complain, but we still fall under the fact that we do lower DPS than everyone else and we suffer a loss of DPS when using songs/turrets. I would of thought if you added a certain level of difficulty to the job, you would be rewarded much better. So the way it seems now, it is basically the same damage comparison as in 2.0, but now you have to deal with more obstacles for the same reward. Don't know, just don't think Wanderer's Minuet or Gauss Barrel were completely thought out ideas.

Alas, its there. It is by no means a deal breaker and I love playing my MCH60. That is just what I think of the changes in general.

[Snowaeth]

OP

I agree with the complaints, but not the solution.

[Dorfentyme]

Sigh. This thread really depresses me. It's full of so many different views of what people think things should be like. People getting angry with each other because they don't agree with how the class should ultimately play. I think it is rather simple. I'll try to break it down.

Bard played a certain way for almost 2 years in ARR. Those who wanted ranged DPS but didn't want to be a caster had a good option. Then, come Heavensward, their new abilities were changed to give them a cast bar. While this isn't a problem in itself, it DOES become a problem if it's the only viable option. Most reasonable people here are just asking that both playstyles be viable. Want to have cast times on your abilities? Great. Go for it. Don't want them? Great, go for it. But you shouldn't be penalized for either. They should be 2 completely different playstyles.

I started leveling a Machinist today, I enjoyed him so much I ended up playing him most of the day rather than my other classes. It was my first time playing a ranged DPS that wasn't a caster, and even then my highest caster is 26. I don't enjoy casters, I don't find them fun. But as much as I am enjoying my Machinist, I'm not liking the fact that from 52-60 I'm going to be getting abilities tying me down to a cast bar. I feel it completely removes what makes the MCH fun, imo.

Having said that, I don't think that Gauss Barrel and WM should be removed. Just simply: make sure they are both very viable options. Don't remove one, or the other. All of you saying "Well git gud!" or "lol we evolved, adapt or GTFO" or "please remove WM completely as its the most awful thing ever" or anything else...you're not helping, and you don't seem to get it, either. By not making both options equally viable, they are killing a playstyle for those that CHOSE that class.

For those that main NIN or DRG or MNK, imagine if they decided to change their abilities to be ranged? Suddenly your playstyle, the class you've enjoyed, has just changed. Some will say dramatically, others will say "big deal". That does NOT discount EITHER opinion.

Stop trying to decide who is right and who isn't. Stop trying to decide what Square's intent was with all this until Square gives direct information about it. Most of the replies in this thread are just unwarranted and unhelpful. Full of people who think they know how the class should be played, and those who aren't sure how it should be played anymore, but still have others telling them "its this way or the highway. See ya!".

Put down the pitchforks, let the reasonable ones express their concerns. On BOTH sides people are being extreme. Let the reasonable voices be heard, on BOTH sides. Please, or this argument will go absolutely nowhere.

[Kaedan94]

For those that main NIN or DRG or MNK, imagine if they decided to change their abilities to be ranged? Suddenly your playstyle, the class you've enjoyed, has just changed. Some will say dramatically, others will say "big deal". That does NOT discount EITHER opinion.
.

This wouldn't be AT ALL similar. It's a horrible comparison.

An accurate comparison would be if Nin/Mnk/Drg were given skills that you had to stand still for 1.5s to complete and gave a 30% damage increase. They are called "Charge attacks".

Seriously, that's what BRD and MCH were given. You get a 30% damage increase in exchange for having to "charge" the attack for 1.5s. It doesn't harm the BRD playstyle in any way.

[nuyu11]

Snip

I will not complaint if our turret stance DPS is comparable with other DPS class but the problem it is not, with WM or without it the DPS is not that much.

Snip.

You forget they take our auto attack when we use WM, Bard DPS mostly come from it.

[AdamFyi]

This was in essence a change no one asked for implemented in a way that is a copy-pasted mechanic with MCH with no cohesiveness to the gameplay BRD mains know and love.

Sorry to butt in, but I wanted to discuss this point a little bit, hopefully. The point of them introducing Wanderer's Minuet, as I recall, was because there were requests for more damage while sacrificing mobility. There was also talk about they superior mobility being quite powerful but their damage was quite low that some would like to sacrifice mobility for some damage.

The question from a design perspective becomes; "How do we give a job that has absolute mobility more damage without making it too powerful nor difficult to use?"

Simple answer would be to force them to sacrifice mobility - which they have done already by adding wind-up times to most of their skills. This removes the "too powerful" out of the equation, but we still have to consider making sure that it's "not difficult" to use. Hence, they went with a wind-up time that is less than the GCD - still allowing players to have some mobility.

With this in mind, could there be an alternative? Absolutely. However, most solutions end up being too strong or too difficult to use. So, I propose a change to The Wanderer's Paeon instead.

LV58 The Wanderer's Paeon (Cooldown: 90 seconds)
The next 5 Weaponskills will be Instant and will deal 15% less damage.
Can only be used under the effect of Wanderer's Minuet.
Additional Effect: Critical hits will increase the stacks of Wanderer's Paeon up to a maximum of 5 stacks.
Duration: 60 seconds

Not the best solution, I admit. Will need a few tweaking, but the idea is there.