I Think I finally know what it is

[BlaiseArath]

They turned into people like you. People who tell others how to play the game they bought with their own money. They turned into people so cynical that they literally left the one thing off from being a real "Gamer" that actually makes you a gamer.

They play games.

A True gamer immerses himself into the Magic of the world. BUT also helps make the world immersive for others.

Yah, f**k him for suggestion people might make the game world a better place for everyone by helping others enjoy a game!

Oh wait.......................

No but really, its okay to like different things and everyones entitled to their opinion!

It should be added for OP, FFXIV does a good job at create challenge in stuff like Coil Savage, it has those challenges for people who want them, it just doesn't reward them (lol titles), so it really is just for the thrill of overcoming a challenge. I can appreciate that too.

[Eidolon]

Snipe

I don't think it's a bad thing to want other people to have fun. But seriously, get off your high horse. There's nothing about him, or you, or me, that makes ANY of us more of a "True Gamer" than anyone else. Let people play the game how -they- want to, so long as it does not encroach on -your- fun.


Not everyone plays for the same reason. Not everyone is going to play FFXIV because they love the story. Some will play it because they love the combat system. Some will play it because it's a passing trend for them - they'll get to 60, then move on to the next buzz-MMO that they can find to satiate their need for an MMO. Others still will play because they find the crafting fun.

None of this has to do with being a gamer. Do you know what all these people had in common? It has nothing to do with this romanticized version of "Magic" of the wrold.

They all played the game. They are all gamers. And you or I are no better than anyone else here. We're equals.

[Jynx]

so long as it does not encroach on -your- fun.

This is so subjective that it's almost pointless to even bring up. How people enjoy the game totally effects how I enjoy the game and how the game will develope towards systems that I enjoy rather than ones I abhore.

You can't just pull a "It don't effect you" card without actually realizing that's one of the most flawed arguments to exist.

While the current generation of gamers may have differing values than I do in design it doesn't mean there isn't room for both in the game, sadly it's obviously skewed to one crowd.

[BlaiseArath]

I don't think it's a bad thing to want other people to have fun. But seriously, get off your high horse. There's nothing about him, or you, or me, that makes ANY of us more of a "True Gamer" than anyone else. Let people play the game how -they- want to, so long as it does not encroach on -your- fun.

Seems to me more like you're the one looking down on folk. Your first post is essentially sh*tting on the OP and calling him cynical. Also I said exactly what you said here:

Its okay they like different things, just like we like different things. They're not bad people for enjoying things we don't like, in fact its okay because fun is subjective...

I thought about saying more but you're saying pretty much everything I said and agreed with.

sadly it's obviously skewed to one crowd.

There's not an high-end MMO on the market I can that appeals to the want for fair challenge, exploration, non-linear dungeons/raids since XI and Everquest... but I know why, it don't sell well... its pretty sad.

[Eidolon]

Seems like you're the only one looking down on others, but... I digress... Still, I think you missed something,



I thought about saying more but you're saying pretty much everything I said and agreed with, but with an added dash of salt.

I just dislike people who try to put themselves up on a pedastole like the OP did. He's basically saying "I'm the only TRUE gamer here, everyone else who doesn't follow MY style of play is a fake gamer!"

That's honestly what I really dislike. You can't say that "You can like what you want" then try to turn around and say "But if you like what I don't like then you're not a TRUE gamer." THAT is why I dislike the OP. Trying to define a true gamer to HIS standards, is absolutely disgusting.

This is so subjective that it's almost pointless to even bring up. How people enjoy the game totally effects how I enjoy the game and how the game will develope towards systems that I enjoy rather than ones I abhore.

You can't just pull a "It don't effect you" card without actually realizing that's one of the most flawed arguments to exist.

While the current generation of gamers may have differing values than I do in design it doesn't mean there isn't room for both in the game, sadly it's obviously skewed to one crowd.

hmn... I can see and understand your point: You wish to preserve your fun, and you don't want it to develop in a way that might be contradictory to your fun, even if the "New generation" or the "Majority" find the way you abhor to be fun.

I think that's fine. I think SE providing content for both, is likewise, fine. I have no issue with anyhting like that, and honestly, there's no good way to counter your statement - because as you yourself said, it is overly subjective.

But my point is stressed that, do not look down on those who love the way you 'abhor' as being any less a gamer than you. I earnestly hope you can continue to enjoy the game, regardless of which route it goes. That is the greatest hope I can have for you, and nothing will take that away. As always, I will do my best to accomodate people in my party for their playstyle where I can, and if we should clash - there will likely be a leave or boot involved, and that's how things likewise go.

But I'm not going to tell someone they're not a gamer because they don't play the way I do.

[BlaiseArath]

I just dislike people who try to put themselves up on a pedastole like the OP did. He's basically saying "I'm the only TRUE gamer here, everyone else who doesn't follow MY style of play is a fake gamer!"

That's honestly what I really dislike. You can't say that "You can like what you want" then try to turn around and say "But if you like what I don't like then you're not a TRUE gamer." THAT is why I dislike the OP. Trying to define a true gamer to HIS standards, is absolutely disgusting.

The phrase "True gamer" did make me cringe. I guess he should probably say "What happened to Video games?". Since its about both games and new generation of players. If theres one thing that is true, games have changed a lot since the early days. Mostly it was because in the early days the only way to make a game last was unfair high challenge... now adays they don't really need to do that. Its true to be said though that gamers today have changed. I wouldn't say its a matter of "true" or not but more a generational difference.

Still now games don't need unfair challenge to inflate game time, to make it worth the money... didn't mean challenge had to die with it, but it kinda did. Even games that offer truly challenging modes aren't really that challenging. (Though, I'd be lying if I said Fire Emblem on Chaos wasn't crazy)

Also GD THIS STUPID 1k Character limit. if it can be bypassed by just EDITING why is it even there.

[Zabuza]

WoW happened.

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/the-d...d-of-warcraft/

This blog explains everything in painstaking detail. It is a long read but I PROMISE you it is worth it.

The environment in the newest generation has shifted from actually having to work for what you want to an instant gratification mindset. The age of mobile phone games, facebook, Call of Duty, and WoW brought this about. As was stated here before, difficult things are work. High difficulty might impede that instant gratification, and we can't have that. The journey no longer matters. Rushing to the end is it. Must rush, go go go go now! WoW is partly to blame, but the other half of the blame rests on the way children are now brought up. Spoiled, coddled, plopped in front of a TV or computer screen, barraged with programs and games of mindless garbage instead of something that requires the slightest bit of thought. Man I feel old, and I'm not even over 30. Anyways, the devs realized what sells and they have catered to it.

WoW became like the parent that spoiled their child rotten. As a result he's dead inside. He feels nothing for the journey, but only for his new shinies, and then when he stands alone, in a world bereft of adventure, he wonders to himself where the adventure went. Where's the fun? Well, he never had fun in the first place. He was only rushing like a bullet towards the endgoal, and why? For recognition on the internet of his leetness? To prove something to himself? Yet in a world where rewards are rained down upon us, where everyone wins and we're not allowed to tell anyone they made a mistake or failed at something, what meaning do these rewards even have?

As a result, this mindset spread through the MMOs like a plague, bleeding over to most of the MMO devs and players, even in other MMOs.

[Lemuria]

hmn... I can see and understand your point: You wish to preserve your fun, and you don't want it to develop in a way that might be contradictory to your fun, even if the "New generation" or the "Majority" find the way you abhor to be fun.

There's more to it than that. People seem to forget that in an online game, how you play affects others in the same environment. I would personally love to find a nice group to get coil done, but it inevitably boils down to a blame game on every wipe and the drama is ultimately why I gave up trying. Even my own FC group ended up engaging in pointless debates and arguments over who-did-whats, and I decided I valued their friendship over my coil progression, so I left the group.

That's a more extreme example, but the fact is that every team you join means you're having an impact on someone else. Often I find that the ones who are hardest and loudest to complain are the very ones who never stop to check the scenery. "But, there's nothing to do!" How would you know, you skipped half the game!

People will always enjoy different things, and that's fine. But people need to understand that their actions will impact other's viewpoint of the game. Myself and some of my friends have been completely put off using the party finder for the most part simply because of the language used. "Get it right, or kick", "Experienced players only", "No loot, no run" and so forth.

Not everyone has to play at a high-octane pace, some of us enjoy the ride.