Suggestion: Dark Knight Revamp (Yes I know another one)

[Ditto]

I doubt Squeenix is going to pay this any bit of attention, as I'm sure they have their own ideas floating around among the people who matter, but I figured I'd do this anyway. (More for myself if anything)

These are all personal suggestions, so if you disagree with any of them, that's fine. But to me, Dark Knight feels like a tank job that was never fully developed. As if it were originally intended to be introduced in 2.0, but was shelved for 2 years. Then it's time came, they took it, and simply threw it in for us. No dusting us off, no making sure all of our pieces were there, no making sure we actually worked, no making sure we actually fit in with the other jobs and did something to make us wanted for the others groups as a tank.

No offense to the developers, really, they made what is in my opinion a very fun job, I like it almost as much as I liked Warrior, and I'm sure I could like it more if things weren't as they are right now. But dey be like it is, oh it do.

While Drk is a passable Tank as is, taking one does not come without a cost. They're incredibly selfish tanks by design, and contribute absolutely nothing to the group when it matters. You can argue that Delirium is the oh so amazing thing they bring to the table, but that is instantly overwritten by a Monks better version. And lets be honest, if you need an Int down debuff, you're better off getting a Monk for it, because their DPS is actually good, and it doesn't come at a crippling cost to what utility the tanks themselves bring. You get more group DPS out of it, more group utility, you have the complete pack so long as you are not taking a Dark Knight, which is the problem. In a similar case to Delirium, Warriors bring a slashing resist debuff. An offensive buff for themselves, other tanks, and Ninjas. Sure, Nin's can apply it too, but it's overall better for the Nins DPS if they let the Warrior keep it up. Now it wouldn't make any sense though to give Delirium a blunt resist down.

Anyway, onto the point. Yes, it's yet 'another' suggestion thread, one I have been trying to put off until after the flood of similar threads was over. And while some of those threads brought up good points and suggestions, personally I couldn't agree with the majority of them. Many of them simply missed the point entirely.

ALL numbers and suggestions can be changed, this is just some raw ideas thrown down all in 1 spot. If you take them all and throw them in 1 place, obviously it's going to look probably overpowered as hell. The purpose however isn't to take every suggestion here and throw them in. Pick and choose, pair things up, whatever, it's just a bulk of ideas thrown down as ways to improve the job, and will hopefully help put some dark ideas into Squeenix's mind. Dark ones. The kinda ideas that are so dark you'd almost expect them to be for a Dark Knight.

Things commented out with '//' are things I'm not entirely sure myself about, but still thought it worth putting down.

So now with all of that explained; moving on, again.

New
Starting off with what I feel they need. I'll go ahead and even throw some names and fluff descriptions in while I'm at it, just for my own thought and to try to create an image for people.

Abilities:

A REAL DPS Stance. No, Darkside is not a DPS stance. It's our Maim/FoF
Vanquish
Become a vessel of the Abyss, channeling it's darkness through your every move. When under the effects of Vanquish, all abilities that would normally cost TP now cost MP, and TP will not regenerate.
Cannot be used with Grit.
Additional Effect: MP costs for preexisting MP abilities are reduced by 50%.
Additional Effect: Darkside no longer consumes MP
//Additional Effect?: Total MP pool is increased by 20%?"

Riposte
Guarantees a parry on the next 2 incoming attacks. The second parry is at 50% of the parry strength of the first. Each parry immediately triggers a 100? potency counter attack.
//Vanquish Effect: Restores MP equivalent to the amount of damage each counter did.
//Grit Effect: Restores TP equivalent to the amount of damage each counter did.
30? Second Cooldown.

Soul Devour
After a short cast, pull a lost soul from the depths of the abyss and absorb it, restoring your HP. Cure Potency: 1200.
60 Second cooldown.
(They ALL have one except Dark Knight, that's not exactly cool yo. You can argue that it's because Souleater restores 100% constant, but at current HP possibilities, that is not a lot. Perhaps if you're building full damage and Dark Arts the souleater it'll have a nice HP return, but outside of that it's small enough to not matter. Large burst self heals are what matter the most in self healing)

Traits:

Fortified Wall
Shortens Shadow Wall recast time to 120 seconds.
//Shadow Wall now does "???" (Don't know yet, was thinking something similar to vengeance, but more DRK like. Don't know if it's even needed. Perhaps add a Dread Spikes like effect.)

//Shadow Parry
//Shadow Parrying is the practice of using your own dark energy to nullify the impact of magic before it hits, allowing you to parry magic in a 360 degree radius.
//Scales off of the Parry stat.
//Requires you to be under the effect of Grit.

//Dark Link
//Sole Survivor now tethers the Dark Knight to it's target with a dark tether, sapping the life away from it with a potency of 100 every 3 seconds, and returning the damage done as HP and MP to the Dark Knight. If the target is killed before the duration of Sole Survivor expires, the recast time of Sole Survivor is reduced by 30 seconds.
Dark Arts Effect: The tether can be intercepted from the Dark Knights side by a party member, giving them the restoration effect.
Does NOT cause fixation.

//Scourge Of The Earth
//Salted Earth causes the effect of Scourge to spread amongst other targets within it's radius, at a 50% reduced potency.
-OR-
//Glimpse Of Darkness
//Teammates standing within the effects of Salted Earth gain a shadowy cloak that reduces damage received by 10%. This does not apply to the Dark Knight him/herself.
-OR-
//Dark Prison
//Targets within the effect of Salted Earth deal reduced damage by 10%. For every extra enemy added, it's effect is reduced by 1% to a minimum of 5% per enemy.


Adjustments
Adjustments to what they already have.

Abilities:

Grit
MP cost to enable is reduced by 75% (332 MP @ Lv.60)
Cannot be used with Vanquish.
//While under the effects of Grit, you are now capable of Shadow Parrying.

Living Dead
HP restoration requirement to nullify Walking Dead's instant kill reduced to 50% of the Dark Knights total HP.
Walking Dead is given it's own visual effect to better alert others that you are now undead for 10 seconds. See post here: SPOILER ALURRRT http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...36#post3077436

Sole Survivor
Sole Survivor can now be used on teammates, as well as enemies. (Cause why not, it adds a really interesting way of using it)
//Sole Survivor now increases damage done to the enemy by 5%. (Don't know, it would make it worth using on bosses just for that effect, but I feel like we already have a lot of bonus damage effects from other classes already)
-OR-
//Sole Survivor now replenishes 20% of your total HP/MP upon expiration whether the target dies or not.
-OR-
//Additional Effect: Sole Survivor now enables the Dark Link Trait.

Dark Dance
Parry rate increased from 30% to 60%.
Dark Arts 20% evasion stays, it's nice for dungeons. (L2 not blood price with dark arts)

Carve & Spit
Recast time reduced to 40 seconds.
-OR-
MP restored and base potency increased.
-OR-
Make it hit 'Threefold' like it says it does. (Preferably this)

Reprisal
//Parry requirement to Reprisal removed?
Window of use after a successful Parry has been lengthened by a lot. Like really a lot.

Blood Weapon
Can now be used under the effect of Grit.

Dark Mind
Extra Dark Arts Effect: Applies 'Linked Mind' to all party members, reducing magic damage taken by 10%. Lasts 15 seconds.

Traits:

Hasty Reprisal
Shortens the recast time of Reprisal to 30 seconds.
On successful Parry, active recast time reduced by 3 seconds.
//While under the effect of Vanquish, parry requirement to use Reprisal is converted to an MP requirement?

//Low Blows
//Low Blows can now proc off of shadow parrying.

Animations

For a heavy weapon class, they feel way, way too floaty. For example use Scourge on a dummy. You feel the impact behind each swing, the momentum behind the swing slicing through through that dummy. Then use Delirium. It feels almost like you're floating in comparison. I understand Drk uses a sword, thus it's suppose to be more 'cut' instead of 'smash' like a Warrior with an Axe, but it really feels as though we're just swinging around a small Paladin sword. There is too much arm strength put behind certain animations, and not enough swing speed and momentum. At the very least, do something that gives each hit the actual feeling of slicing something up with a giant claymore.

And please, ppplleeeeaaassseeeeeee can we have our black flames back?

-----------------

Now I probably didn't touch everything, and probably touched some things that some people don't quite think needed to be touched, but I touched what I could, and I touched it good. Also I like Delirium, but I have no idea what to do for it. Nothing comes to mind really. I guess as it is it's ok if the group you're in doesn't have a Monk.

[Kiteless]

Abilities:

A REAL DPS Stance. No, Darkside is not a DPS stance. It's our Maim/FoF
Vanquish
Become a vessel of the Abyss, channeling it's darkness through your every move. When under the effects of Vanquish, all abilities that would normally cost TP now cost MP, and TP will not regenerate.
Cannot be used with Grit.
Additional Effect: MP costs for preexisting MP abilities are reduced by 50%.
Additional Effect: Darkside no longer consumes MP
//Additional Effect?: Total MP pool is increased by 20%?"

Not really needed. While DRK's DPS might need to be adjusted, it's not to the extent that it needs a full new stance for it.

Riposte
Guarantees a parry on the next 2 incoming attacks. The second parry is at 50% of the parry strength of the first. Each parry immediately triggers a 100? potency counter attack.
//Vanquish Effect: Restores MP equivalent to the amount of damage each counter did.
//Grit Effect: Restores TP equivalent to the amount of damage each counter did.
30? Second Cooldown.

Just replacing Dark Dance with this would solve so many of DRK's problems. You could stop reading this thread here, and it would already be golden.

Soul Devour
After a short cast, pull a lost soul from the depths of the abyss and absorb it, restoring your HP. Cure Potency: 1200.
60 Second cooldown.
(They ALL have one except Dark Knight, that's not exactly cool yo. You can argue that it's because Souleater restores 100% constant, but at current HP possibilities, that is not a lot. Perhaps if you're building full damage and Dark Arts the souleater it'll have a nice HP return, but outside of that it's small enough to not matter. Large burst self heals are what matter the most in self healing)

Honestly, not really needed. We already have Sole Survivor, just focus on fixing that (and not with the method listed below, because I can think of a better use for that...).

Traits:

Fortified Wall
Shortens Shadow Wall recast time to 120 seconds.
//Shadow Wall now does "???" (Don't know yet, was thinking something similar to vengeance, but more DRK like. Don't know if it's even needed.)

I'd really prefer if Shadow Wall was improved in a way that made it feel more unique.

//Shadow Parry
//Shadow Parrying is the practice of using your own dark energy to nullify the impact of magic before it hits, allowing you to parry magic in a 360 degree radius.
//Scales off of the Parry stat.
//Requires you to be under the effect of Grit.

Yes. This needs to be a thing yesterday.

//Dark Link
//Sole Survivor now tethers the Dark Knight to it's target with a dark tether, sapping the life away from it with a potency of 100 every 3 seconds, and returning the damage done as HP and MP to the Dark Knight. If the target is killed before the duration of Sole Survivor expires, the recast time of Sole Survivor is reduced by 30 seconds.
Dark Arts Effect: The tether can be intercepted from the Dark Knights side by a party member, giving them the restoration effect.
Does NOT cause fixation.

Interesting idea, but not for the right skill. Improve the potency, drop the DA and cooldown effect, and move it over to Living Dead. Suddenly, Living Dead becomes not entirely terrible, and very unique.

//Dark Prison
//Targets within the effect of Salted Earth deal reduced damage by 10%. For every extra enemy added, it's effect is reduced by 1% to a minimum of 5% per enemy.

This is the only one of the three reasonably worth considering.

Adjustments
Adjustments to what they already have.

Abilities:

Grit
MP cost to enable is reduced by 75% (332 MP @ Lv.60)
Cannot be used with Vanquish.
//While under the effects of Grit, you are now capable of Shadow Parrying.

Yes. The MP cost attached to Grit is obscene as it is. I'd also opt to remove it from the GCD, but that's just me.

Living Dead
HP restoration requirement to nullify Walking Dead's instant kill reduced to 50% of the Dark Knights total HP.
Walking Dead is given it's own visual effect to better alert others that you are now undead for 10 seconds. See quote here: SPOILER ALURRRT http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...36#post3077436

If you've gotten this far, you've already seen the solution I would prefer.

Sole Survivor
Sole Survivor can now be used on teammates, as well as enemies. (Cause why not, it adds a really interesting way of using it)
//Sole Survivor now increases damage done to the enemy by 5%. (Don't know, it would make it worth using on bosses just for that effect, but I feel like we already have a lot of bonus damage effects from other classes already)
-OR-
//Sole Survivor now replenishes 20% of your total HP/MP upon expiration whether the target dies or not.
-OR-
//Additional Effect: Sole Survivor now enables the Dark Link Trait.

Just find a way to make its use not contingent on something dying, that's all it needs. Give it something flavourful.

Dark Dance
Parry rate increased from 30% to 60%.
Dark Arts 20% evasion stays, it's nice for dungeons. (L2 not blood price with dark arts)

Just replace it with your equivalent of Riposte. Can even keep the name.

Carve & Spit
Recast time reduced to 40 seconds.
-OR-
MP restored and base potency increased.

Yes.

Reprisal
//Parry requirement to Reprisal removed?
Window of use after a successful Parry has been lengthened by a lot. Like really a lot.

Just remove the parry requirement, and reduce the damage by a touch.

Blood Weapon
Can now be used under the effect of Grit.

As someone who detests the idea of "dead skills," I'd appreciate this quite a bit. Could potentially make MP management easier than it should be, however.

Dark Mind
Extra Dark Arts Effect: Applies 'Linked Mind' to all party members, reducing magic damage taken by 10%. Lasts 15 seconds.

Not a big fan of this. While Dark Mind is a fairly situational skill, when it works, it already works really, really well. If Dark Mind needs a buff, it's not in its already stellar situational use.

[Ditto]

Thing with the DPS stance is, I didn't like that Warrior didn't have a stance dedicated to DPS either, but now they do. Leaving the new tank in the old days just doesn't seem right to me. Warriors getting a new DPS stance was part of the 3.0 WOW factor for them, and to me I just don't like that Drk is lacking that. The setup SE is aiming for now with Pld and War is fairly clear, they have ways to be useful in both positions in terms of raw damage and utility. Dark Knight lacks those, both of them. The stance isn't so much to increase their DPS as to give them more of a feeling like they are in the off tank role, designated to do Damage in that stance. Sure it will likely give them a DPS increase, but I cant see it as being anything major. The more important thing it would give is a lot more sustainability so long as they know how to keep their MP afloat. As it is right now, a Drk burns all of their TP in roughly 2 minutes, and then is left sitting on their butt for TP, or relying on someone else to replenish their TP for them. Until they run out again, which they will. It's the sustainability more than anything else.

I'd much rather keep both Dark Dance, and Reposte honestly. Wars have Raw Intuition and IB, Paladins have Bulwark and Sheltron. I think it's only right we have our big RNG mitigation, with our on demand mitigation.

As for Dark Mind, it was more or less to give them some type of raid utility. Even I'm a little bummed on thinking of a way they could be made more valuable to raid compositions, and that was just something that came to mind really. if all they get are selfish adjustments, the problem isn't going to change.

EDIT: Oh and Soul Devour, I just don't see it being right that both tanks have a 1200 potency insta/almostinsta cure but we're left to feed off of much, much smaller HP regens. Those cures work wonders for doing old content solo as well, or just undersized parties without a healer in general. (See Xenosys 3 man Titan Extreme with a War, a Drk and a Pally). Without that, I feel it is going to put Drk in last place when it comes to things like that, whether people find it trivial or not. I also don't see Living Dead being very terrible at all. I like it a hell of a lot more than Holmgang at least.

Animations

For a heavy weapon class, they feel way, way too floaty. For example use Scourge on a dummy. You feel the impact behind each swing, the momentum behind the swing slicing through through that dummy. Then use Delirium. It feels almost like you're floating in comparison. I understand Drk uses a sword, thus it's suppose to be more 'cut' instead of 'smash' like a Warrior with an Axe, but it really feels as though we're just swinging around a small Paladin sword. There is too much arm strength put behind certain animations, and not enough swing speed and momentum. At the very least, do something that gives each hit the actual feeling of slicing something up with a giant claymore.

And please, ppplleeeeaaassseeeeeee can we have our black flames back?

Added this as well.

[Kaedan94]

Only two things I think need changing are:

Reprisal:
-Add to GCD, proc'd by parrying

Dark Dance:
-Change to Damage Absorption shield. Absorbs damage = to X% of max HP or MP.
-With Dark Arts: Dread Spikes. A percentage (or all, depending on balance) of the absorbed damage is reflected back to attackers.

[Xenosan]

Any mention of Doom/Dread Spike I <3

Going off that:

^SE just keep to what you promised at PAX East. A Copy-Paste PLD core that can use Dark Arts to play pretend at WAR doesn't do it IMO. More unique plz

Maybe Shadowskin - instead of applying a CD-named buff - applied Doom Spikes - same thing: 20% mitigation, that would be enough to please me.. but building off that..

Like DRG's BotD, the the Spikes' duration can be extended via Delirium combo. WUT 100% up-time Rampart - that's crazy.. Drawback: have them work like Shade Shift - ie: after a certain amount of damage is received - the buff will wear off prematurely. How is this aspect countered? Self-heals. Self heals via Souleater / Abyssal Drain add to the 'damage sink' of the Spikes.

Say the Spikes reduce damage by 20% for 20 seconds (like Shadowskin/Rampart). But if the total amount of damage the DRK receives reaches 30% of their max HP, the buff will fall off prematurely. HP absorbed via Souleater is added to that 30% lifespan of the Spikes. That creates a sort of priority system where a player has to decide whether they should try to extend the Spikes' duration or strengthen it's warding amount so it won't fall off prematurely. IMO this would create a Magic Tank / Blood Tank feel to the job (which is lacking).

Instead of Reprisal being dependent only on Parry procs, have it also work like Geirskogul. It can be used at anytime as long as the Spikes are up, but subtracts 10 seconds from the Spikes duration (but Parry procs are still a thing, if Parry proc then it's free - no penalty). With NO GRIT Reprisal not only delivers 210 potency, but also deals additional damage based upon a proportional amount of self-heals fed to the Spike buff - making Reprisal an OT DRK's version of Wildfire..

tl;dr make Shadowskin (change buff name to Doom Spikes) function like BotD (Blood of the Dragon) - and Reprisal work like Geirskogul.

..or..

Just allow Souleater's HP absorb to exceed the player's maximum HP.. If 300% of damage dealt converted to HP absorb didn't work for 2.0 WAR's Inner Beast, a 400 potency HP Absorb won't work for DRK. Not saying DRK needs an Inner Beast equivalent, but just let the HP received surpass our maximum.. that way the EHP buffer is never being wasted.

edit: Glad you mentioned Scourge's animation, it easily is the best looking WS. MoFo looks like it hurts.. and that sword glow..

[TheCadian]

I didn't really know what to expect from a Dark Knight in FFXIV, being my first MMO and real attempt to get into FF, but I had two notions in mind when I heard of the DRK's release with both relating to tanking style.

One was partially focused on using a stance/aura that allowed you to substitute HP for MP to kind of wear as an armour or sorts. Coupling that with MP regains would sort of give you this kind of active buffer to maintain a pool which you also draw from to use spells and abilities.

The other was a tank that was focused on inflicting debuffs so that rather than actually being particularly good at tanking the DRK just made everything around him weaker.

It was actually because of that I thought about Shadow Wall and that it could perhaps decrease enemy speed when they attack you.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Love the changes. =D

[Kiteless]

Animations

For a heavy weapon class, they feel way, way too floaty. For example use Scourge on a dummy. You feel the impact behind each swing, the momentum behind the swing slicing through through that dummy. Then use Delirium. It feels almost like you're floating in comparison. I understand Drk uses a sword, thus it's suppose to be more 'cut' instead of 'smash' like a Warrior with an Axe, but it really feels as though we're just swinging around a small Paladin sword. There is too much arm strength put behind certain animations, and not enough swing speed and momentum. At the very least, do something that gives each hit the actual feeling of slicing something up with a giant claymore.

And please, ppplleeeeaaassseeeeeee can we have our black flames back?

Have you ever seen real 2-handed swords being used? They move quite quickly. Even might zweihanders were pretty light, rarely, if ever, exceeding 10lbs in weight. As even the heaviest of weapons had to be able to move quickly enough to fight effectively.

All told, if there's one thing I'm extremely happy about concerning DRK, it's the animations.

[shao32]

i dont put blood weapon in grit in any case, the drk have tp problems, more if you put that skill in grit, and if you reduce the cost of the mp in 75% in grit stance, then the dark knight have a over mp regen extrem op, balance class is not so easy, but of the rest of the changes i love, i hope square do something like that.

[Ditto]

Have you ever seen real 2-handed swords being used? They move quite quickly. Even might zweihanders were pretty light, rarely, if ever, exceeding 10lbs in weight. As even the heaviest of weapons had to be able to move quickly enough to fight effectively.

All told, if there's one thing I'm extremely happy about concerning DRK, it's the animations.

I have, but using a 2 hand in person is far different than using one in a fantasy world. The speed is what I WANT, but there also needs to be a feeling of the hit actually hitting. Otherwise you get floaty animations. As it is right now, a few of the animations feel like you're muscling the sword through the target, there is no momentum or speed.