I chose BRD for swift gameplay, if I wanted to cast I would have chosen a Mage.

[UBERHAXED]

While I will rescind that I was wrong about the removal of cleric stance (ie the six seconds, which isnt all that noticeable) we are discussing BARD not BLM and healer. 15 second recast time to be able turn off WM/GB is quite a while. It;s more than twice the six seconds to turn off clerics....

But I have to ask, why are you in here griping about BLMs. This thread was discussing the changes to bard, not BLM....

To show that your arguments have no grounds because other classes have the same mechanics and are worse off. Having to stands still until a mechanic or dodge is not that big of a deal. Seriously, what other reason do you even have to move? The problems introduced with casting are non-existent on bard and are real gameplay problems with other classes. The penalty is why we have higher DPS. Did you notice that other skills had a corresponding damage reduction along with the WM changes? They won't increase your DPS until the casting actually has a real gameplay trade off. But right now you aren't doing anything casters don't have to do when they cast.

[Vespar]

snip.

You had 60 levels to learn how to play a caster and perfect it. We had 8 levels to learn to do so...
When you've spent your whole time on a class with the freedom of mobility to just suddenly have that ripped out from under you takes time to relearn and adapt to your already learned behavior/muscle memory. It is difficult to relearn something like that and adjust it in a relatively short period of time. Then add in the new actions and record into muscle memory where you have placed those on your hot bar. Then add in the stigma of when we mess up because we were looking at our hotbar for a new action and failed to miss an aoe. Or try to dodge an aoe, but fail a DPS check because we are stuck in a stance we cant get out of for another 6-12seconds but need to avoid a mass amount of aoe or what have you....

I could care less about the overall dmg output that bard currently does. The transition from vanilla bard to WM bard has many of us irritated and all you are doing with your comparing blm to bard is rubbing salt in the wounds of every bard who currently dislikes the change.

[Gallus]

Except you get to keep most of your mobility, you only go minuette in the phases where you do not need to move at all, if there's a heavy movement phase, just turn off minuette, it's not the bloody end of the world, minuette at most increases your damage by 10% (because it increase your dmg by 30% but you don't do autos), does a BLM loses its damage by 10% only if they are moving? No, they more like lose 90% of their damage lol.

[Lyaha]

I think it's funny people think SE have given Bards a choice, turning Minuet will lower your damage by a lot, screwing over your party.

There is no choice in FFXIV, how hard is it to understand that?

Why the fuck should we need to learn an entirely new play style that's quite honestly shitty in combination of the bard skills, this class was not designed with cast times in mind, Machinist probably is but I can't say.

Minuet was added because the class designer was either really lazy and out of his mind and anyone who wants the bloody cast time should play a damn Black Mage, Summoner.. or ye know, a Machinist since they were probably designed from the ground up to work with cast times, bard wasn't and nor should it change, can we have some diversity in our classes?

Except you get to keep most of your mobility, you only go minuette in the phases where you do not need to move at all, if there's a heavy movement phase, just turn off minuette, it's not the bloody end of the world, minuette at most increases your damage by 10% (because it increase your dmg by 30% but you don't do autos), does a BLM loses its damage by 10% only if they are moving? No, they more like lose 90% of their damage lol.

It's so jarring to switch between two play styles, especially with our skills.

[Vespar]

Except you get to keep most of your mobility, you only go minuette in the phases where you do not need to move at all, if there's a heavy movement phase, just turn off minuette, it's not the bloody end of the world, minuette at most increases your damage by 10% (because it increase your dmg by 30% but you don't do autos), does a BLM loses its damage by 10% only if they are moving? No, they more like lose 90% of their damage lol.

You missed what I said earlier, since WM takes the 15 second GCD to be able to TURN off (unlike Cleric stances 6 seconds) we cant just throw it on, and then realize oh crap I need to move, and take it off right away if we need our mobility we have to wait the remainder of the 15sec GCD to do so. And furthermore, during that time just like BLM if we have WM on, we lose 90% of our DPS too if we have to move and CANT take off WM because its in GCD.

[UBERHAXED]

You had 60 levels to learn how to play a caster and perfect it. We had 8 levels to learn to do so...
.
.
.

First off, you should play BLM at 60 before you claim that you don't have to completely different playstyle than at 50 (short of just choosing not to use the moves, which naturally bards have this option too). If it's not about the DPS (as you claim), then don't use it.

I did start off as bard and when I played all the caster classes, then went back to bard I released that there was no point of being mobile. You're talking about an issue changing gameplay style when you gameplay did not revolve around moving, unlike classes which did, like melee.

[Gallus]

I think it's funny people think SE have given Bards a choice, turning Minuet will lower your damage by a lot, screwing over your party.

Or you can go minuette in a phase that requires a lot of movement, eat a thousand aoes and ultimately become a corpse. That'll sure will screw over your party slightly more than doing 10% less damage in some phases.
Think of it this way, do you know how many BLMs would kill their father and mother for a 10% less damage stance that would turn all their spells into instant casts?

[Raiker]

To show that your arguments have no grounds because other classes have the same mechanics and are worse off. Having to stands still until a mechanic or dodge is not that big of a deal. Seriously, what other reason do you even have to move? The problems introduced with casting are non-existent on bard and are real gameplay problems with other classes. The penalty is why we have higher DPS. Did you notice that other skills had a corresponding damage reduction along with the WM changes? They won't increase your DPS until the casting actually has a real gameplay trade off. But right now you aren't doing anything casters don't have to do when they cast.

Cool story, but there was no other class that had they're job completely, and fundamentally changed.

Black mage? Always had to stand still to cast. White mage? Summoner? Same deal, different utility. Melee? Can move around within melee range to stab or punch things.

Nothing about them fundamentally changed after 3.0.

Bard on the other hand? They changed. Completely. This isn't a "other classes have the same mechanics and are worse off" issue; it's a "the game play of a job completely changed after 52" issue.

Your right, there are gameplay issues with some other classes, not all, but some; their roles never actually changed.

I think your more so pissed at some underlying issue you had on a personal level at this point due to your previous posts and are using this thread as a way to unleash at bards.

It doesn't matter if you, a sole person, doesn't like it. Here's your reality; bard is broken. Completely broken. The populace doesn't care if you think it's not as a singular person.

Clearly there is an issue even if you're blind to it.

[Evumeimei]

I don't really like Wanderer's Minuet. I'll use it and adapt, but that doesn't mean I'm especially happy about having to. I want auto-attacks back (I'd say give them back since they wouldn't be affected by WM's damage boost). Also, one of the things that drives me crazy when playing a caster is interruptions. I've noticed that if I use my back-step move on Bard, often if I try to cast right after I land the action gets interrupted. I can't stand it. D;

What makes a physical ranged DPS that much different from any other mage if they have cast times and no auto-attacks? Top that off with the fact that we're weaker than a caster.

My favourite thing about Bard was not the fact of being able to run around while attacking (as so many people assume). I liked how our moves flowed quickly into one another. Rotations felt fast and fun, plus it let me move around while having a song up to get within a party members range for the song to affect them while still attacking.

[Gallus]

You missed what I said earlier, since WM takes the 15 second GCD to be able to TURN off (unlike Cleric stances 6 seconds) we cant just throw it on, and then realize oh crap I need to move, and take it off right away

Bad plays. You do realize I do that as a healer with cleric and the MT is dead?