BRD/MCH look here

[Wavaryen]

snip

Who do you think you are? I should stop talking if I know what is good? You have made no points at all. Even this point you are trying to make is the dumbest thing ever. Class changes always happen, and balance always happen. Just because you got nerfed on dps does not mean you still not a dps class. Where the heck did this support theory even come from? Just because of powerful support songs? So what? How about all the support that other dps classes give also? That people can argue they add just as much as our songs. Yet, they don't think of themselves as support. Until a dev comes out and says. This is a support class, nothing you say matters on the subject. You are a dps class not support.

[xzeroikgre]

Where the heck did this support theory even come from? Just because of powerful support songs? So what? How about all the support that other dps classes give also? That people can argue they add just as much as our songs. Yet, they don't think of themselves as support. Until a dev comes out and says. This is a support class, nothing you say matters on the subject. You are a dps class not support.

"Concerning the machinist, his role is similar to the bard, it's a support for the other members of the team. So, compared to other pure DPS jobs like monk or ninja, of course its DPS will be lower since they have different roles. With the upcoming release of Alexander next week, we'll be very happy to receive feedback from the players."


^from one of the dev's themselves in case you missed it...

[Wavaryen]

"Concerning the machinist, his role is similar to the bard, it's a support for the other members of the team. So, compared to other pure DPS jobs like monk or ninja, of course its DPS will be lower since they have different roles. With the upcoming release of Alexander next week, we'll be very happy to receive feedback from the players."


^from one of the dev's themselves in case you missed it...

Thank you, that is all I was asking for. Since I was told developers don't see bard as support. They are just pure dps. I am glad at least someone showed me something. As I was even searching for it. I guess I suck at finding things.

[xzeroikgre]

Thank you, that is all I was asking for. Since I was told developers don't see bard as support. They are just pure dps. I am glad at least someone showed me something. As I was even searching for it. I guess I suck at finding things.

No problem, I don't mind being a support, is why I picked bard as my main class. Numbers of dps don't really matter to me much at all in the grand scheme of things, I just feel the WM play style is a pretty jarring change after spending so long playing the game without it. It's gonna take time to adjust to it is all, still would have rather preferred another utility song for the party versus WM but it's whateves, still not gonna give up my main no matter how this roller coaster ends, ><.

[Wavaryen]

No problem, I don't mind being a support, is why I picked bard as my main class. Numbers of dps don't really matter to me much at all in the grand scheme of things, I just feel the WM play style is a pretty jarring change after spending so long playing the game without it. It's gonna take time to adjust to it is all, still would have rather preferred another utility song for the party versus WM but it's whateves, still not gonna give up my main no matter how this roller coaster ends, ><.

I like the thought of support that is why I picked it also. The play style is fun, and when I give groups mana or TP i feel that that extra tp andmana i give overall adds to my own dps. I just thought that dps matters because that is what we bring as a class as well. The times we don't need to play our songs, we should be doing great dps. Thanks again for showing me some proof, as people keep saying all sorts of things.

[xXRaineXx]

"Concerning the machinist, his role is similar to the bard, it's a support for the other members of the team. So, compared to other pure DPS jobs like monk or ninja, of course its DPS will be lower since they have different roles. With the upcoming release of Alexander next week, we'll be very happy to receive feedback from the players."


^from one of the dev's themselves in case you missed it...

He hasn't been playing for very long, missed a lot of things.

[Rivez]

"Concerning the machinist, his role is similar to the bard, it's a support for the other members of the team. So, compared to other pure DPS jobs like monk or ninja, of course its DPS will be lower since they have different roles. With the upcoming release of Alexander next week, we'll be very happy to receive feedback from the players."


That's nice and all but you can do everything in the game without them. Our guild summoner has used his revive more than our bards ever needed to use tp/mp recovery.

So shouldn't the summoners revive mean they get support so should be as weak as us?

The only time healers run out of mp is with reviving so getting the summoner to do it instead is actually better at giving healers more potential mp than the archers mp song itself.

[Wavaryen]

"snip

That is what I am thinking. Like this makes no sense at all. No wonder people are confused, I would argue that +crit buffs, and heck even ninja giving tp to people without hurting their own dps. (mind you ninja thing is a lot weaker.) is support in its nature.


Also, about the comment "he is new here he does not know" You know most of the bards I talked to felt the same way as I did? So it has nothing to do with being "new" as it does trying to figure out wtf the devs are thinking. As it feels like with class changes, and balance the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. The players don't know that is for sure.

[xzeroikgre]

snip

Unless you don't have a smn in your group. Or if the heals was dps'ing and the tank unexpectedly dies(had this happen before where i had to kite adds and ballad the pld and heals to get both their mp's up after the pld face planted to stop a wipe). Is Tp/Mp song necessary? No, but on the occasions you do need it, it is the deciding factor on whether or not your group will wipe. There's more to bard than just how much dps you can do, knowing when to use songs, how to kite things, target locking while dodging so you don't lose AA's, snap aggro'ing adds off a healer, and dealing with extra mechanics cause you are the "mobile" dps is just some of the stuff that separates a good bard from a "mash all the buttons while running in circles" bard.

[Chairman_Meow]

Just because you got nerfed on dps does not mean you still not a dps class. Where the heck did this support theory even come from? Just because of powerful support songs? So what? How about all the support that other dps classes give also? That people can argue they add just as much as our songs. Yet, they don't think of themselves as support. You are a dps class not support.

You probably missed the part where BRD/MCH does substantially less DPS overall than NIN/DRG/MNK/SMN/BLM even WAR/PLD/DRK (in their dps stance). Everybody but the healer. If it wasn't for the oGCD resets that BRD has then a cleric stance WHM might be pulling more dps (no actual number crunching done... but WHM does hit like a truck per hit).

I've heard this way too often. Comparing the "support" skills the other dps classes have to BRD/MCH is just asinine. You probably missed the part where BRD/MCH actually has to sacrifice their already piss poor DPS to use their support skills which has a cast time which lowers their dps even more. Battle Litney? Nah. Goad? Toss and forget. Apocatastasis? Shadewalker? Smoke Screen? Dancing Edge? Literally any "support" skill that isn't from a BRD/MCH and the healers? There's no argument here.

They are a support class. Their low DPS on top of having to lower it further more than confirms it. If they were a DPS class then SE needs to bump up their numbers to be in line with the others, remove cast time on songs, and the damage penalty. Simple as that. Even if the devs say they aren't a support their skill set proves otherwise. Saying BRDs are a DPS over a support is like saying PLDs are a healer over a tank because of Clemency.