Ways to fix BRD and MCH in a realistic way

[Volgera]

Last night I ran Fractal with another bard (yes 2 bards). I never used WM as he had WM up all the time. Almost same gear, I had a 160 sash while he had 160 hands.

Result: I literally crushed him. I was always at the point of pulling aggro from tank while he was always in 4th. Sometimes I let him killing a mob alone while I was on another of the same kind. I killed mine while the other mob still with +25% hp left (and I was using RoD all the time instead of BL).

Unless he is a terrible PoS Bard I cant find a single useful situation for WM but to burst only. Every single time I try to use it my dps drops drastically.

[meldon90]

Why would you think their main bonus is their songs? From what im hearing, the songs are becoming less important than making DPS check in the late stages of the game. Also...when I queue for a dungeon, only three roles pop up, DPS, Tank, and Healer. I don't see "Support" or "American Idol" listed. Also, the main bonus for people playing the class is mobility. Not singing. Why can't other classes understand this? Its DPS. If I really had someone in my party with a Bow and Arrow and mad skillz, I would be pissed if I looked over and he/she is singing Kumbaya instead of sniping the F**k out of a boss...They didn't create the BRD class to be the Alfred to your Batman. And I say Alfred cause as it stands right now, Robin can come in this game and do more DPS that a lvl 60 BRD.

Do you remember the 2.0 speedruns? Yes? Do you remember why people wanted bards? No?

Foe Requiem, thats the answer, so what? Still going to tell me that bards main focus is mobility?

[Fynlar]

Nope, its not, their main bonus are the damn songs, why bards cant understand this?

Because their mobility is a lot more generally useful than their "damn songs" are, perhaps?

[AskaRay]

Last night I ran Fractal with another bard (yes 2 bards). I never used WM as he had WM up all the time. Almost same gear, I had a 160 sash while he had 160 hands.

Result: I literally crushed him. I was always at the point of pulling aggro from tank while he was always in 4th. Sometimes I let him killing a mob alone while I was on another of the same kind. I killed mine while the other mob still with +25% hp left (and I was using RoD all the time instead of BL).

Unless he is a terrible PoS Bard I cant find a single useful situation for WM but to burst only. Every single time I try to use it my dps drops drastically.

Which is funny, because I've had the same experience in Fractal, but reversed (I took down WM for bosses after burst, however). My mobs dropped to the floor long before their's did. I also constantly pulled off the tank.

Really... it just depends on the run and the person.

[Warlyx]

Like blood for blood... an essential part of alot of dps kits which increases damage taken by 25%?

but thats a CD not a class mechanic....

[Lemuria]

Nope, its not, their main bonus are the damn songs, why bards cant understand this?

Because it's not true? We have a handful of songs, many of which reduce our attack power when used. So they're used sparingly.

We have a TP regen skill, but we can't see people's TP bars. This is hard to use effectively without spamming chat asking if someone needs it.
We have an MP regen skill, but in many cases it's simply not needed if your healer's can manage their MP effectively. And now healers have a lot more tools for just that!
We have Swiftsong... err... yeah.
And we have Foe's Requiem. A great skill if you have mages, but utterly meaningless if you're a melee heavy party.

We're not the only DPS class capable of helping out team mates either:

-Ninja has Goad, their own TP regen skill.
-Ninja also has Smoke Screen and Shadewalker, great for fixing any aggro issues that arise.
-Ninja can also raise everyone's damage on the target by 10% using Trick Attack.
-Black Mage has Apocatastasis, a great skill for bolstering tanks against magic.
-Monks have Mantra, which boosts healing magic on the entire party.
-Dragoon has Battle Litany, which raises everyone's critical hit (arguably better than anything we can provide, I might add!)
-Summoner can Raise the healers, as well as provide buffs and debuffs.

The only reason people single Bard out is because ours are persistent. Even though they're not even all that potent. It's 30 potency for Ballad, compared to 60 potency for basic Shroud or 80 potency when enhanced. Paeon is 30 tp per tick. Granted, those figures are doubled with the help of Battle Voice, but a 5 minute cooldown shouldn't define us as a job.

I won't say the songs aren't beneficial, but we're already losing potency with the main ones simply by using them. Shouldn't that automatically counter any arguments that say we should be weak even without them on?

[Warlyx]

u forgot about debuffs (slashing , blunt and piercing all melees bring that , nin lose dps doing it tho) and Monk dragon kick int debuff

[Volgera]

sigh. Thats why I'm leveling my SCH asap to 60, otherwise I'll be loosing new content spots very soon as a Bard. By levelling SCH I get another DPS in the package.

[QiLymePye]

Do you remember the 2.0 speedruns? Yes? Do you remember why people wanted bards? No?

Foe Requiem, thats the answer, so what? Still going to tell me that bards main focus is mobility?

Are you serious? did you just speak on 2.0? Lol. We are talking now. And people wanted BRD in 2.0 because they were overpowered, not so much because of Foe Requiem. LOl. Have you not played BRD since then? That would explain your comments.


Now on another note, I kinda wish they gave BRD an ability similar to the ammunition and reload ability for MCH. Like maybe Quiver and Nock...IDK just throwing stuff out there

[Ramath]

Nope, its not, their main bonus are the damn songs, why bards cant understand this?

You mean the mana song that healers would rather do without once they've learned the timing of the fight? Or did you mean the tp song which no melee needs once they learn how to manage Invigorate? Or did you just mean the magic damage+ song which only effects half the dps in your party, at best, for a limited time?

When are you, and everyone else who seems unable to do anything else but mindlessly quote these incorrect and inaccurate fallacies, going to pull their heads out of their @$$'s and realize that song's aren't the only reason BRD and MCN exist? When was the last time you failed a pull and said, "Damn, I wish we had a TP song going then. We would've cleared it for sure."

Never. Instead, you just say things like, "DPS is too low. Kick the BRD/MCN."