Healing potency buffs not working on Lustrate etc : Working as Intended?

[ckc22]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3069262

Based on the latest hot fix:
An issue wherein the white mage action “Divine Seal” which affects magic only would also affect the ability “Assize”.

This pretty much confirms that Lustrates/Tetragammatron/Essential Dignity/Asylum will not have their potency increased by buffs, and is working as intended .

Now we can objectively say that Lustrate etc is worse on a WAR compared to DRK and PLD.

So basically the lustrate nerf was even bigger than originally thought and Dissipate is as bad of a skill as everyone thought in the first place. Thanks for nothing square.

[Cynfael]

If this is true is dissipation even worth using for anything but the most desperate situations. the main reason i would use it was for the Aether flow stacks and was out. in most situations its just hard to justify killing your fairy. especially since you then need to re-summon it using a large amount of mp and swift cast. i would rather get no % increase 3 temporary aether flow stacks that stack separate from the standard ones and pet auto re-summons after 30s (unused stacks disappear).

i would also prefer they give old lustrate back and just disable all healing during cleric stance if that's what they want. this new version seems messy and counter intuitive to learning players.

or hell lock cleric stance to out of combat activation only like the AST stances. this seems like the worst of all choices.

I doubt that the Lustrate change had anything to do with Cleric Stance (good SCHs don't rely that heavily on Lustrate); they just wanted to define a limit on how powerful it could become since it was set to scale with the target's maximum HP, and player HP will continue to increase dramatically in tandem with our character and item levels in future updates. It also means that you can no longer instantly fluff quest NPC allies who must be kept alive as a condition of the duty, and on whom Lustrate was absurdly effective since they had tens of thousands of HP.

Same reasoning behind Graniteskin getting removed from the game.

And yes, Dissipation is pretty bad.

[CrimRaiOh]

[insert text here]

i seemed to remember reading some where yoshi p wanted healers to be more focused around healing and not dpsing. As one of the favorite uses for lustrate was healing while in cleric stance it seemed like this was an intentional move to make scholars not hands down the best dps healer. the only potential positives people were seeing in the change is now they could amp up lustrates with buffs.
right now i see buffed physicks hitting WARs as hard as lustrate.

the NPC part i can understand. it was too strong on them.
i really just want to be able to buff "ability" heals.

[Cynfael]

i seemed to remember reading some where yoshi p wanted healers to be more focused around healing and not dpsing. As one of the favorite uses for lustrate was healing while in cleric stance it seemed like this was an intentional move to make scholars not hands down the best dps healer. the only potential positives people were seeing in the change is now they could amp up lustrates with buffs.
right now i see buffed physicks hitting WARs as hard as lustrate.

the NPC part i can understand. it was too strong on them.
i really just want to be able to buff "ability" heals.

Even if you're using Eos' Fey Illumination and cast Physick on a Defiance-enabled WAR, you won't have quite the potency of Lustrate. With more CDs/buffs involved, yes, could exceed Lustrate's power, but only for a short time.

Making Lustrate a potency-based heal (incidentally affected by MND now), doesn't change anything for SCHs who are accustomed to DPSing in all kinds of content since most Aetherflow stacks were spent on Energy Drains and Banes, anyway, with maybe 1 stack held in reserve so that you could risk eeking out one more Ruin or refreshing one more DoT while the tank's HP became critical. The only change the Lustrate rework did for SCH DPS is to force us to click off CS before using it (and if you're going to click off CS to heal, you're probably just going to Physick/Adlo and pop back into CS, anyway).

What Yoshida said most recently was that bit about raid minimum clear DPS not being set with healer DPS as an expectation due to how it would boost the difficulty too high, but that they acknowledged that players leveraged healer DPS to help meet DPS checks, especially when below the minimum ilvl that the devs designed the raid around.

[CrimRaiOh]

Intresting thing I ran into running leviathan ex. Lustrate and indomitibility proc the healing debuff same as before. A debuff that is supposed to only work on healing spells. Asked the whm in the party to try assize. It didnt trigger the debuff. Also emergency tactics triggers it twice. Now most likely this means nothing but it is an example of assize not reacting like the other ability heals.

[Zoralink]

i seemed to remember reading some where yoshi p wanted healers to be more focused around healing and not dpsing. As one of the favorite uses for lustrate was healing while in cleric stance it seemed like this was an intentional move to make scholars not hands down the best dps healer

The issue is they need to actually make fights consistently challenging and skill based to heal, and not so heavily scripted with you being able to easily predict exactly what heal you'll need and when. As it stands, there's a reason people have already solo healed the extremes.

Making damaging skills extremely expensive to cast along with slapping healers with the inability to consistently hit mobs is not the way to do it. It's lazy and just makes me not like healing as much because the alternative is twiddling my thumbs with nothing to do.

[Cynfael]

The issue with increased randomization in fight mechanics is that sheer luck becomes nearly as important as player skill. Fights are designed currently so that almost anyone can complete them if they attempt to learn; they don't have to rely on pure twitch + favorable RNG to succeed.

I'm not suggesting that some unpredictability can't make things fresh and fun, but it's a mighty fine line.

[Zoralink]

The issue with increased randomization in fight mechanics is that sheer luck becomes nearly as important as player skill. Fights are designed currently so that almost anyone can complete them if they attempt to learn; they don't have to rely on pure twitch + favorable RNG to succeed.

I'm not suggesting that some unpredictability can't make things fresh and fun, but it's a mighty fine line.

Not really. SE currently designs fights so that you only ever deal with one or two mechanics at once, but failing to do those mechanics properly will almost always result in something catastrophic. Most MMOs have many mechanics in tandem, but one mechanic being done improperly is just very bad, rather than a nearly guaranteed death/wipe. Because of this, they can make mechanics for healers to deal with healing-wise, rather than healers just playing the role of an extended health bar. It's why so many people struggle on the Vault final boss, it has multiple mechanics happening in tandem with semi-randomized damage. Many healers aren't used to this in FFXIV, and they simply can't handle it.

[Cynfael]

Not really. SE currently designs fights so that you only ever deal with one or two mechanics at once, but failing to do those mechanics properly will almost always result in something catastrophic. Most MMOs have many mechanics in tandem, but one mechanic being done improperly is just very bad, rather than a nearly guaranteed death/wipe. Because of this, they can make mechanics for healers to deal with healing-wise, rather than healers just playing the role of an extended health bar. It's why so many people struggle on the Vault final boss, it has multiple mechanics happening in tandem with semi-randomized damage. Many healers aren't used to this in FFXIV, and they simply can't handle it.

There's nothing truly random about the Vault final boss: you know which mechanics are coming and when to expect them. Variables such as not knowing for sure which pair of players will get hit by chains are commonly implemented degrees of "randomness" already present in many encounters in the game.

The most random fight I can think of off the top of my head is Mog EX, and all you need is to be able to identify each mechanic and be ready to handle it once you identify that it is happening.

Boss fights in virtually all games come down to a flow chart with a certain number of branches. It's true that mechanics in FFXIV tend to be both highly scripted and extremely punishing, but they've come out and stated that this is their design choice to encourage (read: enforce) learning and to cut down failure due to random elements.

On the other hand, I think the recent fights with more environmental effects (e.g. tornadoes err'where in Bismarck EX and in Neverreap) are their attempt to increase the requirement for incidental healing so as to keep healers busier with actual healing.

[Zoralink]

-long post purely about RNG-

I was referring specifically to the combination of pseudo random mechanics along with multiple occurring simultaneously. That boss keps you mostly busy the entire time healing wise, compared to most boss fights that have massive periods of downtime.