Darkhold really "easy" or merely what we were warned about by Matsui?

[Delsus]

This thread is not about the ogre's AOE, it is about ghosts and the currently popular strategy employed which puts melee in ghost range for much of the fight.

I can fight ogre with my LNC at the top and only get aggro from the ghosts if I try to run from AOEs so if you know the mechanics melee dont get aggro.

[Murugan]

I can fight ogre with my LNC at the top and only get aggro from the ghosts if I try to run from AOEs so if you know the mechanics melee dont get aggro.

The ghosts don't aggro they are like sea hares they just emit an AOE at set intervals. The ogre is one thing as I can see how you can position him so that melee can be out of range, but what about batraal? Unless you are standing between Batraal's legs with the tank are you avoiding their AOE's there as well? If so then are you not hitting lights as well?

I just think those strategies hinder melee because they are getting hit unintentionally by ghosts. Whereas if the tank moves with the ghosts then melee do not have this problem at all and can get archer level damage without needing heals (or near enough to it to not be a hindrance).

[Delsus]

The ghosts don't aggro they are like sea hares they just emit an AOE at set intervals. The ogre is one thing as I can see how you can position him so that melee can be out of range, but what about batraal? Unless you are standing between Batraal's legs with the tank are you avoiding their AOE's there as well? If so then are you not hitting lights as well?

I just think those strategies hinder melee because they are getting hit unintentionally by ghosts. Whereas if the tank moves with the ghosts then melee do not have this problem at all and can get archer level damage without needing heals (or near enough to it to not be a hindrance).

I will admit I have done batrall once but in that fight I was killing skeles, once they are dead hitting the lights then engage batrall untill the skeles repop the repeat, didnt get hit by anything except the skeles and the healer assigned to us could cope, until the tank died and we got raped, but that was only because the tank died.

[Murugan]

I will admit I have done batrall once but in that fight I was killing skeles, once they are dead hitting the lights then engage batrall untill the skeles repop the repeat, didnt get hit by anything except the skeles and the healer assigned to us could cope, until the tank died and we got raped, but that was only because the tank died.

You know what's funny is I had like an identical response to the "matsui hates melee" thread that came out shortly after Darkhold. The problem with the stationary tactic on Batraal and melee is that once the ghosts pop (they aren't there at the start of the fight), if the tank does not joust because the ghost are dynamic unlike in Ogre the melee cannot as easily dodge them 100% of the time.

The result of this is that either they are slower on circles, require significant healer attention, or have to stay out of range for periods of time not doing damage. This makes them a hindrance using that strategy, however if the tank does joust the ghosts melee are free to damage more on par with archers.

I know groups that use the static strategy and have melee DD come along, but I honestly think in this case they are treating the melee more as a charity case than anything because I don't see how that strategy really accounts for ease of melee DD (and I'm 100% positive that Matsui did not design a ranged centric fight from the onset).

[Delsus]

You know what's funny is I had like an identical response to the "matsui hates melee" thread that came out shortly after Darkhold. The problem with the stationary tactic on Batraal and melee is that once the ghosts pop (they aren't there at the start of the fight), if the tank does not joust because the ghost are dynamic unlike in Ogre the melee cannot as easily dodge them 100% of the time.

The result of this is that either they are slower on circles, require significant healer attention, or have to stay out of range for periods of time not doing damage. This makes them a hindrance using that strategy, however if the tank does joust the ghosts melee are free to damage more on par with archers.

I know groups that use the static strategy and have melee DD come along, but I honestly think in this case they are treating the melee more as a charity case than anything because I don't see how that strategy really accounts for ease of melee DD (and I'm 100% positive that Matsui did not design a ranged centric fight from the onset).

The reason the ARC onry idea came around is because ARC could avoid damage from ogres AOE, and this mentality has stuck even when people are completing the dungeon left right and center because the ARC onry tactic has been tested so many times, the melee tactic has not been tested as much because people insist on ARC onry for darkhold, therefore people dont know how to utilise melee for batrall and choose not to use them becuase the see melee as a hinderance.

Its catch 22, people dont use melee because a decent tactic has not been discovered but because people dont use melee they cant get a decent tactic. People want to win the dungeon so they go with proven tactics.

[Murugan]

The reason the ARC onry idea came around is because ARC could avoid damage from ogres AOE, and this mentality has stuck even when people are completing the dungeon left right and center because the ARC onry tactic has been tested so many times, the melee tactic has not been tested as much because people insist on ARC onry for darkhold, therefore people dont know how to utilise melee for batrall and choose not to use them becuase the see melee as a hinderance.

Its catch 22, people dont use melee because a decent tactic has not been discovered but because people dont use melee they cant get a decent tactic. People want to win the dungeon so they go with proven tactics.

This is not true, the ogre's AOE can be easily stunned (more easily if you actually have a LNC in melee range). The ARC preferred strategy came about because of the stationary tank method's ability to negate the ghost making the fight significantly less difficult to execute.

[Delsus]

This is not true, the ogre's AOE can be easily stunned (more easily if you actually have a LNC in melee range). The ARC preferred strategy came about because of the stationary tank method's ability to negate the ghost making the fight significantly less difficult to execute.

To quote a linkshell member "whats the obvious way of dealing with a fight where a mob uses alot of AOEs, use archers who can stay out of range", the ARC only mentality came around before anyone got to batraal, the first day I logged on after the patch my linkshell were making a dungeon run and asking for archer, it was within a week the ARC only mentality was around which was I believe before anyone beat batraal, and you can tell from the distance the ogre is from the ghosts that you can have melee in there without getting hit.