Bard - they broke my job

[Arrik]

snip

It's cute you think that I'm a new Bard, and attacking me instead of discussing the ability and changes. We were nerfed not because our dps was high, it was because our sustained dps while moving beat the turrets dps while trying to do the same thing. We have always been a bit lower on dps when turrets have been able to stand still, and the way WD has been scaling is making it worse. We should not being able to move like a 2.0 Bard and dps better than a turret, but as soon as we go turret we should be much closer than we currently are. No one would be forcing you to use WM, but you shouldn't out dps a turret without it.

Edit: I like mobility Bard. I like turret Bard. Turret Bard's dps is too low to be turret (and is lower than mobility Bard in actual fights) and needs to be fixed, and should be the primary form of damage. If you don't like it, turn it off and do less dps.

[yamochan]

you may go back a few pages i discussed a lot and i know that 2.0 bard was way over the top and i dont complain about the nerfes till 3.0 because they were in order to balance the bard out but i have to ask you do u want bard to be a turret?

or rather do you want 3 classes that are very identical? because now we have big turret blackmage then little turret bard and turret with more turrets ^^ and a bit more mobility mecha.

i can ofc only speak for myself but i guess im not alone with it. i want classes with different playstyles and the bard playsytle was very good as it was and im still not talking about the dps output were having but the playsytle

[Arrik]

snip

SE themselves are making the jobs more homogenized, but in the case of Bard it's given as an option in an attempt to increase dps. Nobody is taking your option away, you just aren't ever going to do dps like a turret while retaining more mobility than one. And again, this is an OPTION. Turn it off, pew pew with your weaker shots. But when the time comes to damage, consider the fight you are in and weather you need to lay the dps down a turret would.

Also, how I would fix MCH would push the job a bit farther away from Bard, not toward it.

[LenTsani]

Edit: I like mobility Bard. I like turret Bard. Turret Bard's dps is too low to be turret (and is lower than mobility Bard in actual fights) and needs to be fixed, and should be the primary form of damage. If you don't like it, turn it off and do less dps.

Bard and Machinist DPS is the same percentage less than "dedicated" DPS jobs as it was at level 50. It just seems bigger because the numbers are bigger. Not saying there aren't some minor adjustments needed, but the damage is the same it's always been comparatively.

[Arrik]

Bard and Machinist DPS is the same percentage less than "dedicated" DPS jobs as it was at level 50. It just seems bigger because the numbers are bigger. Not saying there aren't some minor adjustments needed, but the damage is the same it's always been comparatively.

Exactly, turret Bard should be about the same dps as other turrets, not lower. Taking WM off for mobility should push them below turret dps.

[yamochan]

and im ok with not having the dps of a caster class that is what it always was after the first nerf. if we are a bit behind thats only fair and i gladly trade some dmg for mobility and we have one very importand thing: Songs!

after all bard is a support/dmg dealer.
if we do the same dmg as everybody else the songs would totaly overpower the class but the songs must still make the grp stronger than before not just be a justification to bring a bard at all.

im also saying ninjas need some nerf because they are in the same boat as us so let them have a bit less dmg but still more than bard because melee is harder to play but bards and mecha buffs are to be stronger than NINs.

now as for mecha is conserend i said that yesterday already this class works it just need less rng, more dmg and maybe less cd on quickdraw. because even with gauss on mecha can still move with his instants.

the 3 support dmg dealers must come out dead even in the end wich is very hard i know

[Arrik]

after all bard is a support/dmg dealer.
if we do the same dmg as everybody else the songs would totaly overpower the class but the songs must still make the grp stronger than before not just be a justification to bring a bard at all.

There are no support in this game, just a bunch of dps with some measure of support. If I queue DPS, and do damage in a similar manner to another DPS I should do about the same DPS as the other one. NIN is certainly more support than BRD (especially now with the enmity moves in addition to TA and slashing damage debuff) and very few seem to think it's dps should be as significantly below other dps who do damage in a similar manner (melee physical dps). Also songs other than Foe's have a damage penalty built into them, it's not needed to double down on it by lowering the base damage of the class as well. And I showed a few pages back how TA is more support than Foe's.

[yamochan]

Also songs other than Foe's have a damage penalty built into them, it's not needed to double down on it by lowering the base damage of the class as well. And I showed a few pages back how TA is more support than Foe's.

i agree i would even go as far as saying that the debuff should be removed or at least lowered but bard i considered a support character even if there is no real support role, as is mecha because he brings simelar buffs. only NIN isnt right now because his dmg is relativly high.
well it go both ways bring MCH and BRD up or NIN down. (rather the first than the second)
then consider this: if BRD and MCH do the same dmg as the casters by what means i dont care here then you will have the casters and melees cry out for more because the buff classes are doing the same dmg as them.
this is spiral that can only broken by either removing the buffs, inventing a real support role (like tank/heal/dmg/sup) or us simply accepting less dps for buffs.

[LenTsani]

There are no support in this game, just a bunch of dps with some measure of support. If I queue DPS, and do damage in a similar manner to another DPS I should do about the same DPS as the other one. NIN is certainly more support than BRD (especially now with the enmity moves in addition to TA and slashing damage debuff) and very few seem to think it's dps should be as significantly below other dps who do damage in a similar manner (melee physical dps). Also songs other than Foe's have a damage penalty built into them, it's not needed to double down on it by lowering the base damage of the class as well. And I showed a few pages back how TA is more support than Foe's.

This is why we can't have nice things.

[yamochan]

snip.

hey len i know this is bard thread and all but how is playing MCH for you does the class feel its somewhat wrong or do u think it only need some minor changes?
just interested if i should lvl one. (i know the problems of the class just wanna hear it from someone with more experience than me)