Male Au Ra Standing posture is way too "proper", namely his feet

[DreadRabbit]

snip

I get what you're saying, and you and everyone else are entitled to your opinion. However, try to see it from the other end too. What you consider more freedom of choice in altering the Xaela is limiting to players like me that like them as they are.

And you saying "well there's still the Raen if you don't like it" is like me saying "Well you still have Miqo'te if you don't like Au Ra". You have made it very clear you don't like hearing that. Well I don't either.

I prefer the color palette and contrasts the Xaela give. I like that they can in fact look menacing but then turn around and be charming. So I should have to give that up just because you don't like their emotes? I agree that some choices didn't make sense (I don't get why female Xaela don't have the black/gray sclera. That is a very odd choice to me). It doesn't bode well with everyone, but then again not every race is going to appeal to every player.

These were literally the thoughts I had when making my first character (and I'm sure I'm not the only one):

"Oh hey, Elezen are really pretty. This one I made is actually very cute! ...wait...why are they THAT tall? If they didn't loom everyone like that...and that run. Instant nope."

"Woah, Female Roes are really pretty. But again, I tower over everyone. And they're a bit too brutish for my liking. That's a bummer."

"Cannot stand the voices or the princess run of Hyurs. That's a shame because I really like the hair offered for them."

"Lalafell are adorable, but I don't like how the gear changes for them. So much detail is lost due to their size...that sucks. Why didn't they just shrink the gear down, they didn't have to change the details themselves."

"Why do keepers of the moon act the same as keepers of the sun? Especially females? Since they're matriarchs shouldn't their emotes be more demure or commanding?"

These are legit opinions too, and I'm sure people have brought similar ones up. But you don't see entire threads asking SE to change these things just because of a few people who might play the race if those select things were different. I ended up a moon miqo'te because despite it not feeling entirely right, it had more of what I was looking for compared to the other races at the time. I didn't make a thread complaining that it wasn't what I thought it should be.

The differences between most races are really only one or two things, one of those things just being color palettes (with the exception of Hyur). Nothing wrong with asking for more diversity between sub clans of each race. That is a welcome thing. However asking for a race to appeal more to you by sacrificing what others already like about it isn't fair either.

"This isn't what I wanted, so change it to what I like and let all those people who liked it before just switch to the other tribe. They can deal with it." Is essentially what your argument amounts to.

As for the beastly tribe thing...so all this effort you're spending trying to get them to change a race, which they're known not to have done already, is more likely to happen than protesting the possibility of a new race more to your liking? They didn't follow the poll they made to a T, but at least they did make one to show they're curious about what people want to play as. At this point you and I are running in circles here. I will say that things like the options of adding more scales, or a universal height slider for all races are brilliant ideas that should be promoted.

All I can say is if you do choose to help back a petition for the kind of race your're looking for, I will gladly back it with you. Been in that situation where my character never felt right since I started playing as a female Miqo'te, and it sucks. So anything that can be added or considered to lessen the number of people that feel that way I'm 100% all for. But I'm not going to agree to give up this character that does finally feel perfect either.

When they said they are a warring tribe, you expect them to look more menacing.
They look like they're ready for a tea party. It'll make more sense for the Raen males
but NOT for Xaela's. TBH, I don't care on both sides, it looks weird as hell.
I just wish they use concept art Au Ra for all. I love kawaii shxt as the next person but come on now.
We already got the Neko's....WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM US!? lol.

Minor complaint at the end of the day..../cpose and move on I guess.

And this is where you can't please everyone. To me they look plenty menacing as they are or have the capacity to with what's available. But different strokes and all that I agree, none of the default poses are all that grand for the races anyway.

[Samcaesar]

Snip

Is the option to have scales really limiting to your ability to enjoy the Xaela? I mean, shoot, I mentioned a bunch of toggle-able features, in which in one clan it's be auto on, and in the other it'd be auto off. If you're big thing is "I want to be cutesy and have black scales!" then go with the option that gives more customization of the Au Ra and support that instead of going "Don't touch my Au Ra in any way, just wait til the next race and you might be to your demographic's liking"



The issue is we've yet to have a demi-beast race with (visually) tough women. In fact, being strict about it, we've got the Roegadyn as the only race with Women who look really big and tough most of the time. So no, it's a false comparison. Making the Xaela part of the Au Ra look visually tougher means you have a near identical option, that can even participate in the Xaela's culture. Saying "If you don't like the Au Ra.. Just choose a different race!" is a false comparison because they're visually nothing alike and there's no way you could make a "Xaela" tribe with any race besides maybe hyur. You've got options if the Xaela change to still be an Au Ra, I don't have the option to be an Au Ra if they stay the same.

I've yet to see a "menacing" girl Au Ra, they're the size of 15 year olds. Sure you could, if you want to be your "Menacing yet charming" girl Au Ra, you still have the Raen as an option, however if we want to be a "Big and tough" girl Au Ra, we've got nothing. It's never going to appeal to everyone, but it could appeal to more people, but with more options or changing the Xaela entirely, the Au Ra as a whole will appeal to more people.

I find your notes on Miqo'te interesting. You didn't want to choose them because the emotes are exactly the same despite the entirely different cultures. Wouldn't you find the plea to change the emotes for the Xaela to portray their culture better a sympathetic one? The difference is you're willing to settle, you're not willing to go on the forums and say "SE, can you change this? It's a lazy job and it really just appeals to the majority demographic and that's not fair." Perhaps if you spoke up others would agree with you, and you could get the emotes to be changed to reflect the Moon Keeper's lifestyle and culture better, but shrugging it off and just accepting it doesn't change anything.

Again, are black scales all that more important to you than the people who want a more beast-like version of the Au Ra to be available? Besides, there's always the options of adding to the race. Adding things that are optional will suit both demographic's needs, more so to the "Cutesy 'demi'beast races" demographic's wants, but it's still better than nothing. It's lazy work whenever two different clans have entirely different cultures act exactly the same and look exactly the same.

Sure, I suppose you could construe my argument like that, I've mention just adding optional options that are automatically on for the Xaela and automatically off for the Raen and are both toggle-able, but let's pretend for a moment that that is exactly what I'm saying.
You always have the Raen to play with if you want your Au Ra to stay nearly completely identical. What do we have if we want a tough looking demi beast race? Male Au Ra maybe? Okay, but if you want a girl tough looking demi beast race, you've got literally nothing. Are black scales that big of a deal to you? If you want to roleplay as a Raen living in Xaela culture, you can without even breaking lore. A Roegadyn women in Xaela culture is very ambiguous and not likely, but it doesn't matter because you still don't have an Au Ra option for those who like big, tough women. The only slightly major difference is the scale color, you state this yourself.

I'm willing to believe in SE to change if people start complaining enough, people not supporting the idea even if it doesn't personally go with their tastes are apart of the problem hence trying to work things out logically with people. I have a feeling they didn't follow the poll to a T for good reasons (for example the "Viera" comment spurning a lot of support for another mammal demi beast race and stuff like mixed races being way too difficult due to all the various combinations needed).

You don't have to give up anything as long as you show support for SE adding more options to the Au Ra to make them appeal to both crowds, IE stuff like a "Heavy/light scales" option, an additional "Mature/tough" face for the girls (And I suppose another cute/younger face for the men), or the ability to make any Au Ra go from 4'8 to 7'3. Nothing is lost when you have optional options you can choose to opt into or not.

See, I really don't see how you can find something with the face and body of a 14-16 year old teenager very menacing (Not to mention the lack of muscles seen on the girls). Heck I think the Miqo'te girls look a bit more threatening if you choose something like the bushy brows and use that pose where they've got their hands on their hips. Something feels a bit different with the arm crossed cpose for the girls and the fact that they're smaller than the Miqo'te in every way except maybe the hips doesn't help. I wouldn't mind something akin to like the DRK pose except minus the sword and arms crossed for the girls really.

[DreadRabbit]

snipe

Alright, with this I'm done. First you clearly showed you can write walls of text but you aren't willing to read them. I said your idea for more optional scales and for height sliders is a good one and should be praised. And in your other thread asking for things players would like to see in character creation, I have said I'd love to see more face choices for all races.

What you've been constantly talking about in this thread is completely changing how they're represented. Yes, I said I was surprised and even disappointed by moon miqo'te emotes, but that didn't stop me from liking them for the time I played them. Every race is going to have something that the player using it isn't going to like. It's called compromise. In your previous posts you were talking about changing the tribe's emotes, their height, and their ascetics. So literally just about everything. Only just now are you saying "I want that added, I don't want it replaced."

Up until people started commenting on your views you were pretty staunch they needed to change outright, not accommodate. Particularly since you're saying "you could still go Raen if you don't like the changes." There's a big difference. If you were only suggesting to have those features as optional additions, why would I even tell anyone in this argument "the other tribe is over there"?

And here's the thing: I don't see a problem, which is why we're never going to agree. I didn't see a problem before Au Ra were even announced with the other races. This has become a debate about what we each prefer ascetically and there is no winner because we will not convince the other. Point blank. Do black scales matter that much for me? Well let me ask you this: why don't you play Roegadyn or Highlander? If it's due to an ascetics choice of any kind then you are no different from me in being stubborn in regards to what we want for a playable character. Now if we got a scale color slider and I could turn my Raen's scales black or other colors, then that wouldn't be a problem because then everyone could have whatever scales they wanted. But you haven't suggested that either. In fact, from the way you've talked you're against Raen changing at all, this entire time your only gripe has been Xaela. Which sounds to me that having black scales mattered quite a bit to you too aside from lore.

Why don't you go suggest similar changes for those races to fit your needs? I'm curious to see how they'd react to someone wanting their race changed too. And asking people to switch tribes/clans is a big deal to quite a few. If it weren't, why would there be sub clans in the first place? Again, why should those of us who like what we have be made to accommodate? Why only Xaela?

I'm sorry that the Au Ra don't resonate with you and others who feel similar to you. I hope SE helps you find a middle ground somewhere. Good luck and good night.

[Samcaesar]

Snip

Cool, I appreciate you ignoring the fact that it's one of two things suggested, but you go on about how any modifications to the Au Ra aren't needed because it might ruin the race/clan. A thread like that needs far more support to even gain a bit of attention, shame other players don't agree with both you and I's agreement in more face choices for the races.



It didn't stop you from making a moon Miqo'te! And I noted that, I noted that because your standards and where you're willing to settle are far lower, why? Perhaps you're 95% percent satisfied with the Moon Miqo'te, that remaining 5% is because you don't like the emotes. This is not the case with other people. The issue is whenever people "Compromise" with a race that's only 49% (Or really whatever percentage it is) to their liking, it's not really a compromise is it? I admit I've talked about changing the emotes entirely for the Xaela, as emotes should be indicative of their culture which doesn't seem to be the case with most of the girls' emotes, but I'm also fairly sure I've never said anything besides optional changes for with regards to the aesthetics unless if we were talking specifically about the scenario of changing one of the clans entirely.

And you're saying I don't read walls of text. From the get go I've said optional changes would be great and even preferred, because I realized that "Oh hey some people like their black scaled waifus". I only bring up the idea of heavily modifying one clan (With unchangable actions) because it's not like it really robs anyone of the current Au Ra model, they've literally got a palette swap difference option available. It'd be like getting upset that Luigi acts different than Mario in Super Mario whenever you still have Mario as a playable option. I'm not sure why you brought it up, like I said it could've been because the way you read my argument whenever I didn't mean it in that manor. Hence the word I used was "construe". If so, why not just say "Don't change the clan 90%, but I like the optional idea much better", no need to debate then.

That's a problem whenever you're not willing to show empathy for those with the other side. Complacency isn't a good thing whenever you're ignoring the wants of others because you're satisfied. That's the issue with saying "Go play Highlander or Roegadyn", neither of those races are "Demi-beastmen esque with large and intimidating members of both sexes". I can not make a Roegadyn that was a member of the Dorthal tribe, they don't mix with outsiders. You can however make a Raen and say that they painted their scales or something to blend in, because they're still an Au Ra. That's the thing though, a "Scale color selector" (Which scale customization iirc is another thing SE talked about but kinda didn't go anywhere with) alone doesn't fix any problem. Heck I personally wouldn't mind some kind of scale color selection, really. No, black scales don't really matter to me, I mainly talk about the Xaela because they fit the design motif of "Big and tough" much better than the Raen do. Heck I focus specifically on one clan because I'm still fine with giving people options. If the Raen were made big and tough with extra scales instead of the Xaela, I wouldn't mind, but the fact of the matter is there's still people unwilling to give up their waifish girls so they oppose change all together. Sure, it's partially an argument upon personal opinions on aesthetics and design, but that's only with regards to what changes need to occur and to which clan. At least I'm willing to give a compromise by saying "Make it optional or just change one of the clans" instead of "Just wait til the next race, leave the Au Ra alone".

Heck, most people don't have any complaints with the original races, I would place this on being due to them being based on XI's races, though I've seen plenty of people suggesting changes to the Miqo'te to make them a tad more beast-like. Why would it be a big dead to switch tribes/clans? If you want to be apart of Xaela culture and still have the cute and waifish Au Ra (Or elegant I suppose, but I have far less complaints about the men of the race), just be apart of those several tribes that aren't brutish and savage. Or heck, make up some fun lore thing about how your Raen managed to slip by by painting their scales and being called the runt of the litter sorta deal, it's not that hard. The Xaela just fit the over all theme of "Brutish and savage" better, and honestly considering the massive difference in lifestyles it's surprising the only difference is scales. Though, I wouldn't mind several changes to make the clans more distinct from their counterparts, it's less of a concern however as all of them have a certain race that they were already based off of unlike the Au Ra which are new and original. The answer to your question of accommodation is consider what the two options are in this specific scenario "Change your clan, but ultimately change nothing outside of that" or "Don't play the Au Ra and make a character with their lore in mind unless if you like the specific aesthetic of it." You've at least got options with the first one, the second one there's no option for the other side.

That's the same non-apology apologies I've been talking about. SE's not going to give a darn about the middle ground til the demographic they care more about extends their support. Good luck and good night to you as well. And similarly, I think I'm done with this thread as well, we're just going to have to agree to disagree, I just with that disagreement didn't leave those wanting a more beast like Au Ra in the dust.