The completely REASONABLE changes to the Dark Knight job thread

[MuzakFan]

Seems to be something related to dark knights, a lot of dark knights abilities have a long CD for no reason, shadow wall being 180 seconds, and it's worse than Vengeance. Carve and split, 1 minute cd for a 450 dmg attack. Reprisal, 30 second cd for the same type of debuff as Storm's Path which is just a normal combo spell.

I speculate the CD for Shadow Wall is so high due to Dark Mind existing. When boosted with DA, it's the equivalent of Sentinel only for magic attacks, and is only on a 60s CD and can stack with the other mitigation debuffs.

Reprisal is the equivalent of SP but Delirium should be seen as the regular combo debuff a la Rage of Halone's STR down. Reprisal is just an extra ability when DRK is MT, clunky as it is currently.

[Hundred]

Boosted Drk mind does the exact same thing as Shadow wall so long as you are taking specifically magical damage, on a third of the cooldown.
You can do 3 Dark minds for every 1 Sentinel/Shadow Wall. Its in its own world given SHadow wall already basically directly copies Sentinel outside of the 10% less. Which is kind of why you prioritize a Drk over Pld...big magical hits where the Drk has more frequent mitigation tools to deal with those. On physical hits he doesn't, but Pld does...hurrah we have a tank that excels @ magical, 1 that excels at Physical and 1 that doesn't really care or at least War didn't until Raw intuition said "Do u like parries?"

Drk isn't in mitigation trouble. Its not in aggro trouble from the info im hearing about their enmity and they aren't in damage trouble either. Its if their more "selfish" tanking is worth dropping PLD's support.

[Falgern]

snip

Shadow Wall is 30%, Sentinel is 40%. Vengeance is 30%, 120 second cooldown and longer duration as well as giving a stack of wrath. Shadow Wall is the worst out of the three abilities. There is no reason for the long CD.
Paladin's Spirits Within is a 30 second off global with 300 potency, Carve and Spit is 450 potency and costs mana, or 100 potency and gives a minor amount of mp. And there is little point in using Carve & Spit for the mp due to it just giving the same amount as Siphon Blade
I do like Dark Mind, it's a nice spell, Dark Dance is complete garbage for anything other than trash.
Most tank busters are physical, paladin and warrior can have at least one cooldown up every 30 seconds. dark knight is closer to 50 seconds. Give Dark Dance a physical damage reduction, like 20%, as the Dark Arts effect and dark knights would have the same possibility as warrior and paladin to mitigate damage.

[Falgern]

I speculate the CD for Shadow Wall is so high due to Dark Mind existing. When boosted with DA, it's the equivalent of Sentinel only for magic attacks, and is only on a 60s CD and can stack with the other mitigation debuffs.

Reprisal is the equivalent of SP but Delirium should be seen as the regular combo debuff a la Rage of Halone's STR down. Reprisal is just an extra ability when DRK is MT, clunky as it is currently.

While I don't like double posting the 1000 char limit is quite.. limiting.

There is no reason why Reprisal can't have a 100% uptime. Warrior has a 100% uptime of Storms Path as well as having access to Storm's Eye. Let there be a 100% uptime of it and not stack with Storms Path. There shouldn't be a case of "Oh I missed the proc window, now everyone will take 10% more damage".

If Dark Dance was better I wouldn't mind the long cooldown of Shadow wall, as it would give us access to proper cooldowns for every tank buster.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Carve and Spit should be 30 second CD.
Reprisal should be 20 second CD.
Shadow Wall should be 120 second CD.
Dark Dance should be 25% Evasion for 15 seconds. No Dark Arts required (Problem is, its a temp buff, you have to rely on it.. terrible idea.)
Blood Weapon shouldn't require Grit.

[Hundred]

Paladin's Spirits Within is a 30 second off global with 300 potency, Carve and Spit....

What a weird comparison to make given Dark Passenger & Salted Earth are far more apt comparisons to SW then C&S. Given C&S is another Mana refill.

Most tank busters are physical, paladin and warrior can have at least one cooldown up every 30 seconds. dark knight is closer to 50 seconds.

Not all are. Unless you're aiming to count for Shelltron as your immediate defensive cooldown , Pld has no more access to % mitigation Cooldowns then Drk. You have Rampart & Sentinel vs Shadow skin & Shadow wall. One could say Clemency but they can just as simply be responded with by Drk Mind, or the reality that as a MT, Reprisal is 10% dmg down for 66% of the time unless they ignore Parry...which is typically magic bosses which...Drk mind covers...

Give Dark Dance a physical damage reduction, like 20%, damage.

Wtf. Stahp

[Falgern]

Carve and Spit should be 30 second CD.
Reprisal should be 20 second CD.
Shadow Wall should be 120 second CD.
...

Reprisal on 20 sec cd would make it have downtime, 15 second cd and it would have 5 seconds where you can reapply the debuff without it running out, making it work better.

Evasion doesn't work with our other skills, and requiring dark arts to cover for a tank buster isn't bad. Warriors need 5 stacks of wrath to do inner beast, it takes us less time to get enough mp to do dark arts.


I really want to see a TP refresh on blood price as we are already having problems with tp.

Blood Weapon could work a bit different during Grit, possibly a 25% life steal instead of the 10% attack speed. Our damage and threat is good enough, more life steal fits with the concept of the class and isn't really going to make the ability overpowered.

[Falgern]

snip

Dark Passenger is currently a waste of mana if you are tanking.

I made the comparison because Spirits Within is the same as C&S, a single target nuke.

C&S is a 450 potency attack, the MP gain is so minor it's not even worth it.

Sheltron is a defensive cooldown It has a guaranteed block on the next attack. Block is currently 25% damage reduction and you can block nearly all tank busters

Dark Mind only works on magical Most tank busters have been physical, there has been some magical.


Reprisal has the same amount (-10%) as warrior does with a 100% uptime, it also relies on parry, which isn't guaranteed.



20% physical damage reduction for a low duration, lets say 6 seconds, on Dark Arts + Dark dance, would be the equal to Inner Beast, which Warrior usually uses together with other cooldowns. It's not overpowered.

[MuzakFan]

While I don't like double posting the 1000 char limit is quite.. limiting.

You can edit your post after the initial submit to get around the limit, btw.

There is no reason why Reprisal can't have a 100% uptime. Warrior has a 100% uptime of Storms Path as well as having access to Storm's Eye. Let there be a 100% uptime of it and not stack with Storms Path. There shouldn't be a case of "Oh I missed the proc window, now everyone will take 10% more damage".

I don't know, both reprisal and delirium together are pretty strong especially for magic focused bosses. I am okay with the limitations of reprisal but I would like applying it while MT to be much more reliable. Having it not stack with Path seems like more of a nerf to DRK/WAR tank combos more than anything.

If Dark Dance was better I wouldn't mind the long cooldown of Shadow wall, as it would give us access to proper cooldowns for every tank buster.

Dark Dance is designed to be physical only like Bulwark or Foresight, to help overall mitigation between the tank busters. DRK gets more out of the parries due to our other skills getting procs from them, the problem is the extra evasion bonus is counter to DRK's strengths and isn't worth blowing MP on. It could use a small buff so that it's more consistent and is worth boosting with DA.

Much of the problem with our current speculation is that we're trying to apply encounters in 2.0 to how we think Alex will work when no one really knows. Tank busters, if they will even be present the same way in 3.x, could function differently. Certain bosses could alternate physical and magical tank busters, in which case DRK could pop Dark Mind for the magical ones between Shadow Skin and Shadow Wall. So it would have an answer for every attack; we just don't know.

[Falgern]

I don't know, both reprisal and delirium together are pretty strong especially for magic focused bosses. I am okay with the limitations of reprisal but I would like applying it while MT to be much more reliable. Having it not stack with Path seems like more of a nerf to DRK/WAR tank combos more than anything.

Dark Dance is designed to be physical only like Bulwark or Foresight, to help overall mitigation between the tank busters. DRK gets more out of the parries due to our other skills getting procs from them, the problem is the extra evasion bonus is counter to DRK's strengths and isn't worth blowing MP on. It could use a small buff so that it's more consistent and is worth boosting with DA.

Much of the problem with our current speculation is that we're trying to apply encounters in 2.0 to how we think Alex will work when no one really knows. Tank busters, if they will even be present the same way in 3.x, could function differently. Certain bosses could alternate physical and magical tank busters, in which case DRK could pop Dark Mind for the magical ones between Shadow Skin and Shadow Wall. So it would have an answer for every attack; we just don't know.

I don't mind the parry limitation of reprisal, but I would prefer to have a close to 100% uptime. At the moment you can't time it for bigger attacks, either possibility of 100% uptime or the ability should be on demand.


Delirium is already covered by monks and reprisal doesn't work unless the boss is hitting you, which magical bosses might not do. dark knights simply don't have an unique debuff to bring to the group.


Paladins got Sheltron and Bulwark for physical, Warriors have Raw Intuition. Sheltron is guaranteed block, bulwark is close to 100% block, raw intuition is guaranteed parry. Dark dance increases parry chance by 30% Quite ridiculous how they can be thought of as balanced. Foresight has generally been seen as the worst defensive cooldown as it only provides 5% mitigation, but all tanks have it.


While we haven't seen any alexander content, we can look at what spells both warrior and paladin got, and both of their new CDs were for physical damage Dark knights are just missing that guaranteed safety for physical attacks that the other tanks have.