The argument"MCH/Bard have utility so their damage should be lower"

[Tanthalus]

See, I always just thought the lower base damage was the trade off for mobility, and that brds are barely inconvenienced by fight mechanics, not support.

This pretty much answers it. These are support/dps classes -not casters. If you want big boom go blm. If you wanna toss damage everywhere go smn. If you wanna hook onto an enemy and stay in blast range go melee.
The reduction of dps has always been an accepted part of the party wide tide turning buffs that enhance/save a group. Not happy with helping? Maybe you rolled the wrong class/game.

[HexWeaver]

-BLM gets Apochiasisis and is outright the king of AoE with no rival

Did you not get the memo? SMN is the outright king of AoE now.

[AlphaDragoon]

You don't get lower damage because you have utility. You get lower damage because you have utility AND are ranged. Ranged classes don't get to be top DPS because otherwise there's no point to melees who have to risk a lot more and hit positionals. While BRD/MCH could stand to get a bit of a bump up in their overall power, it should never match a melee DPS.

[hallena]

-BLM is outright the king of AoE with no rival

Not anymore mate

[SuzakuCMX]

If i wanted to go for a support I would've picked a healer, you know the only ones who could even be considered support . At least then i would be useful 100% of the time for the spot I'm taking other than when a healer dies and I become their personal totem pole.

You know BRD/MCH are support DPS, right? They do decent DPS but not as much as a straight-up DPS because they are able to raise the entire party's DPS through their support abilities. It is 100% on you that you do not accept "support DPS" as a job and then complain about how you don't get to deal as much damage as a pure DPS class. That'd be like a WHM whining they can't do as much DPS as a BRD because they're both "support classes." No, that's not how it works, this is YOU misunderstanding roles in the game, and if you can't accept that then pick a different class.

[Panasync]

I think this is a huge issue with how closely they're clinging to the trinity. Coming from FFXI, I wanted to main another support class (played bard main after switching from ranger for a long time). Well I kinda got best of both worlds, but I would never consider Bard a support in XIV. Yes they have support-ish abilities, but all the jobs do in some form or another, however Bard is the only class that gets a % debuff when in use, special to bard and now machinist I'm assuming by losing dps on their turret. The fact that people even refer to the jobs as supports baffles me, does anyone see a support role in the DF? I don't, and I certainly don't see any support jobs.

You know BRD/MCH are support DPS, right? They do decent DPS but not as much as a straight-up DPS because they are able to raise the entire party's DPS through their support abilities.

You mean like DRG's piercing debuff, Ninja's 10% damage taken debuff throughout the fight? All DPS have supportish abilities. Ninja TP refresh and now hate management. Should they have punishments and be looked at as support DPS? Where are you drawing the line between support and just straight DPS?

[Tanthalus]

Ghh...

Yeah I can come up with crappy arguments

Show me a support slot and I'll happily agree with you.-

Ok Mages Ballad.
Done.
Dude you pull low numbers because you don't know your rotation. You argue like a boy with a paper ass and your "logic" is centred on what? Being a totem pole? I'm sorry I can't even...
Once again...you picked SUPPORT dps which means you can support the healers, the other dps, the entire group.
Anywho, functioning brds love the class and those who find the curve a little too steep come to the forums to try and bend the will of SE. Thank God skybear that you only represent. 00001% of the active player base.

Go to the target dummies, understand that you have a couple cast bars now and pick up your game a little. And stop hating on stuff you wish you did differently (rolled a drg)

[Tanthalus]

Ghh...

Yeah I can come up with crappy arguments

Show me a support slot and I'll happily agree with you.-

Ok Mages Ballad.
Done.
Dude you pull low numbers because you don't know your rotation. You argue like a boy with a paper ass and your "logic" is centred on what? Being a totem pole? I'm sorry I can't even...
Once again...you picked SUPPORT dps which means you can support the healers, the other dps, the entire group.
Anywho, functioning brds love the class and those who find the curve a little too steep come to the forums to try and bend the will of SE. Thank God skybear that you only represent. 00001% of the active player base.

Go to the target dummies, understand that you have a couple cast bars now and pick up your game a little. And stop hating on stuff you wish you did differently (rolled a drg)

[Tribunus]

Where are you drawing the line between support and just straight DPS?

I think the difference is most people consider those with "noticeable" party wide buffs as support, although Trick Attack, Mantra and Litany could fall under the same scope. Im not against BRD/MCH receiving buffs, however its got to done carefully otherwise we return to 2.0 where BRD was king and only one melee was brought along for the limit break.

[Romsca]

Starting off, I do not believe the gap between brd/mch and the other classes should be as large as it is, and that is before the song penalty. Now I do side with the thought that a mobile class should have a lower dps because of the inherent benefit from manually dodging an attack. But it's not like Titan has a bunch of randomly falling rocks scatter across the arena for you to dodge.

First we should ignore the idea of utility or support, because we could put mp/tp songs on any other class, ie monks give off a bolstering aura replenishing tp on nearby players. Face it, players look for the easiest class to play. If black mage did not have a cast time on their skills, no one would play any other dps class. So to entice and reward daring individual's to fight in melee or have to stand still to cast, range/mobile dps should hit a little bit less.

Now second, we are dealing with FF14 and I believe the player community has blown away SE's content/mechanic design team when it comes to overcoming the obstacles, or SE's team just dropped the ball in some spots. Back during the 2.5 patches I argued in the smn debates that the class is a multi target dps class, we thrive where monsters are spread out or need to be kept apart. It wasn't the class's fault SE didn't design more content with that in mind, so why bring a smn when a black mage would work better to speed run a dungeon? Frankly, melee should have MORE obstacles to deal with. Longer radius on AoE's, shorter cast time on enemy attacks, harder hitting attacks etc to reward them for choosing a melee class and having a higher dps. bringing down the overall dps would help a dungeon or raid maintain it's challenge level