Estinien (spoilers)

[KylePearlsand]

Did you already forget Moenbreyda, who was killed in just one patch?

Or Hauchefant who was literally killed right in front of you from a blow meant for you.

[Samcaesar]

Snip

No it's not falling apart. Especially whenever it's a fight for survival more so on the ends of the dragons that it is for the Ishgardians. Who started the war? Ishgard. Who continued the war? Ishgard. Who is it that claims the only way to end the war "peacefully" is with the death of Nidhogg (And likely all the dragons and heretics)? Ishgard. All Ishgardians participate in the support of the Holy See and the continued onslaught of dragons and heretics, they're hardly innocent. Now consider the dragons, what do those dragons offer to Ishgardians who rebuke their connections? Redemption and forgiveness, in the form of the "heretics" Ishgard also kills. Estinien over and over claimed that killing Nidhogg was the only way, never the idea of containment, as somewhat unfeasible as it sounds it's still never even considered.

You can't start a punch some guy for no reason, act like you're innocent in the actions whenever the guy fights back, then knock him out and say "It was the only way!". That doesn't make it a "Fight for survival" even if he's winning the fight for the most part, actions have consequences, ones that Ishgard refuses to even consider.

Post limit is up, so don't expect me to respond so quickly.

[Kauthryn]

Did you already forget Moenbreyda, who was killed in just one patch?

No, you're right. Four. Granted, we knew Moenbreyda for less time than any scion, so her death held less impact.

[PArcher]

I never really felt the Scions died. However, I'm going to actually be more surprised at this point if all of them live with minimal "damage" (Y'shtola going blind isn't much in the grand scheme of things); my money is on Yda or Papalymo dying (which is the pair I really want back. Was hoping Y'shtola would be dead, but noooooo). Moen's death didn't really have much impact on anything, since she was new and we didn't know her well.

As good as it is for Nanamo to be alive...it feels really cheap. The way it was wrapped up let me down a bit too, most likely because I was unhappy she was just drugged. I feel the story would have been better going off her being dead and Lolorito having to deal with the consiquences, and our rage.

I'm also not sure Iceheart is dead; she has the Echo and harbors a Primal. I'm sure she'll be back, though probably changed a bit. Estinien is, at least for now, just "bound" by Nidhogg. We'll likely get him back briefly before he makes the ultimate sacrifice to kill Nidhogg for good.

Hauchefant...we *saw* him die. It was a *very* emotional scene, and all the cutscenes referencing him also had emotion to them. And that's why I'm not sure he's gone for good. I can't think of any other time our character did more than nod or another basic emotion. I don't know how he would come back at this point, but if we consider the Triad maybe something can happen there...or, worst case scenario, the Warrior of Darkness steps in...

[Grayve]

It makes it rather clear that Nidhogg never intended to win the war. But to punish all of Ishgard. The story makes it clear that all Ishgardians now posses the blood of Rastoksk, and that both heretics and loyalists are just pawns to perpetuate the suffering of Thoradan and his offspring.

Eistinien was willing to go along with the attempt at peace, but even Hrasveger, who loved an Elezen, was on Nidoggs side. As much as we might understand why Nidhogg did what he did, there wasn't much choice.

And as quests around Artryx Trine show, even dragons not part of Nidhogs brood are suffering because of the war.

On iPad, sorry for errors.

As an aside, Estienin wanted to carry the eyes beyond the reach of man or dragon, meaning he didn't have the means to destroy them.....

So, where Ratastoks eyes destroyed? How about Bahamuts?

[WyrahFhurrst]

So, where Ratastoks eyes destroyed? How about Bahamuts?

Ratatoskr's eyes were "consumed" by the Knights Twelve. How they ate supposedly indestructible eyes I have no idea (though that whole thing wreaks of Ascian involvement).

And Bahamut's eyes? At this point, no one knows, though I wouldn't be surprised if some Allagans consumed them, or they're on display somewhere in some Allagan Museum somewhere. That is, if the Allagans took them when they killed him and didn't simply leave them to rot in Meracydia.

[Grayve]

Ratatoskr's eyes were "consumed" by the Knights Twelve. How they ate supposedly indestructible eyes I have no idea (though that whole thing wreaks of Ascian involvement).

And Bahamut's eyes? At this point, no one knows, though I wouldn't be surprised if some Allagans consumed them, or they're on display somewhere in some Allagan Museum somewhere. That is, if the Allagans took them when they killed him and didn't simply leave them to rot in Meracydia.

Yeah, I guess my question is more 'consumed how'? They might not have been destroyed.

[Frederick22]

(Y'shtola going blind isn't much in the grand scheme of things).

I know everybody says inmedatly that she is blind beacause of the color of her eyes. But I dont remember that exacly, when she said was blind?
I only undertood that she got that shad efect beacuse of her travel to the lifestream. But on my point she can still seee.

About deads

Iceheart and ....."snif" Hauchefant u.u are really gone for good and they will not come back. What we saw, what we experience was a dead in all ways. It was not like Nanamo *-* yes she doesnt matter if she lived or die, but what happened on 2.55 left a lot of indications and weird paterns that inmediatly the players did notice, on the evry first commens someone already says that she was sleep with a false dead drug and truns out to be true.

What happened on 2.55 was more like the events that force the WoL to go to Ishgard and discover the trues of the Dragonsong war, yes I admit. Seeing now how all end on Ul'dah, we see the events of 2.55 much more less strenght than before. I was hoping that Lorolito would become the super high villian , but that turns not to be ( for now ), even him in his high ego and "money is first" had the sanaty on not tring to wake the rage on WoL and the Scions ( was Teledji's idea of frame them, not his, that way explain his frustration at the end, his plans ended good but he could have bee worried of what would happen if the WoL comes with full rage ).

I can clearly see that we arent done with Estinien, I see the same patern ( no blood, no body, no dead ). and maybe some people will not agreed but common we need a guy with his personality of a game!!! The way he correct Alphinau and the WoL to make thins right >< Even if he was the azure dragoon he admits that the dragons were not the only ones responsables of the War.

Sadly Hauchefant was a dead for guys.. You were all sainf " naahhh why we dont have a good dead on an important character", for the ones that wanted her eyou have it ( I'm not one of them e.e )

[WyrahFhurrst]

I know everybody says inmedatly that she is blind beacause of the color of her eyes. But I dont remember that exacly, when she said was blind?
I only undertood that she got that shad efect beacuse of her travel to the lifestream. But on my point she can still seee.

Matoya the witch and Y'shtola's teacher mentions it. Phrases it as "when did the light leave your eyes" which is ye olde speak for blindness.

[Dualblade]

For the part OP had brought up right at the start: I am completely confident that Estinien will be saved from Nidhogg's influence. I am completely sure it will be by our hand.

I am also MOSTLY sure that Lahabrea will also be saved by this, and be using Estinien's body as his new vessel, thus setting up even more saving to do.