A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[Reinha]

And yes, the story quest would STILL be there, and it would still grant exp and money, rewarding those who opted to do it but not punishing those who didn't want to. . . . So that leaves us with the following question: if FFXIV's story is entirely optional, what's the downside?

2) Story. Fun on it's own but now it's more fun because I get access to new dungeons while doing it! "Dungeon unlocked - The Aery now accessible" just popped today and I felt like I achieved something. The feeling of achievement and a good story can be combined for extra fun just as it has been in this game so far.

I'm getting tired of repeating myself. Right now the story rewards us with money, exp, gear, travel methods, cosmetic stuff and access to dungeons, sidequests, classes and areas. If you give some of those as freebies, then they are no longer rewards for doing the story. -> Story is less rewarding. -> Doing the story is less fun for me because I don't achieve anything significant while doing it. And no, some exp and gold isn't a significant reward when even brainless fates give you company seals on top of that. I want the journey to matter and not just be a means to an end.

SE could easily use a different quest symbol for quests that you can take but haven't done the story for yet (and there could certainly be an option to turn off quests you weren't ready for, story-wise).

Now this is something I could support. As long as there's an option for story gated gameplay I'm ok with it.

I did not personally attack you. I attacked the point you made. If you can't see the difference between the two, then I don't think this is worth my time.

You're literally taking pleasure in their misfortune. So, okay. There's one answer to how it negatively affects you, I guess: less sadism.

You said I take pleasure in others' misfortune when I never even spoke of others in my post let alone wished anyone harm. How on earth is implying I'm a sadist not a personal attack? Please elaborate what else you were trying to accomplish with your comment other than a half arsed attempt to make me (or someone who shares my opinion) look like a bad person, because I honestly see no logical connection between my post and your reply.

There's a difference between building yourself up (achieving something) and tearing someone else down (being happy because they can't achieve it).

Seeing as you understand the difference, why did you try to make it seem like they are the same in your comment about sadism? I only spoke of my personal sense of achievement and never once said it brings me joy to see others struggle with the MSQ, yet you decided to imply I take pleasure in others' misfortune. That's an ad hominem: responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments. Please don't resort to fallacies because it makes a complete mockery of your cause and wastes the time of everyone involved.

Let's assume that SE makes the storyline optional. People can skip it, or save it for later, or whatever, and delve into whatever content they choose, whenever they choose to. Who, exactly, are we losing as a result of this? People who like the story, still have the story.

SE would've lost me months ago when I first started if they didn't push me to try the story. Whether I would quit in the future is not relevant when discussing new players' impressions, just like it's not relevant that you are still here despite the story not being optional. So I'll tell you my first impression as a new player. I have never liked questing before trying FFXIV, because it was unrewarding and the story sucked in WoW. The only questline I truly enjoyed there was the legendary quest in MoP, which set you on a 2-year mission that had both solo and group elements.

Someone asked me to try FFXIV. First quests were typical RPG chatter quests, but then I unlocked Aetherytes, guildhests and the first dungeons and their cutscenes. Whoa! Fast forward and I get a mount that I can name and move faster with. I began to be as excited as I was with the legendary quest in WoW. If the main quest was optional I would have wrongly assumed it was not worthwhile based on my experience with quests in WoW and judged the game solely by it's combat and community (dungeons and raids are the same thing with a different skin). The GCD is too long and I have constant lag and bad fps compared to WoW, and the first player contact I encountered was Sell'gil whispers and mass fc invites. I probably would've quit ages ago if it wasn't for the story drawing me in.

The story can offset quite a lot of annoyances (like lag, slow combat, RMT) if the game introduces it to the player early enough via the mandatory MSQ. So, after I've given myself as a contrary example, can you prove that the MSQ makes more new people quit than it persuades to stay? Your side is the one that made the claim about an optional story being good for business, so the burden of proof is on you.

Show me the number of people who will quit if the story was made optional.

And you. And everyone else who thinks a completely optional story in this game would be good for business. Go ahead and prove it, with more than just anecdotal evidence. Until then, I'm going to leave this thread, because you people are just repeating the same things over and over, flinging ad hominem at the opposing side, and claiming others are objectively wrong (brilliant! haha) whilst trying to shift the burden of proof onto people who like the current situation. It's a waste of time to try and have a proper two sided discussion in this thread.

[RichardButte]

I'm getting tired of repeating myself. Right now the story rewards us with money, exp, gear, travel methods, cosmetic stuff and access to dungeons, sidequests, classes and areas. If you give some of those as freebies, then they are no longer rewards for doing the story. -> Story is less rewarding. ->

No one suggested rewarding people for NOT doing the story. Where the hell did you get that idea?

2) Story. Fun on it's own but now it's more fun because I get access to new dungeons while doing it!

Yes, keyword: I (aka YOU).

This is the issue I have with the entire counter argument: it all boils down to varying degrees of "I like the story, therefore everyone should HAVE to do it!"

And everyone else who thinks a completely optional story in this game would be good for business. Go ahead and prove it, with more than just anecdotal evidence.

Do the thirty or so posts from people who have tried and failed to get their friends into this game not count? And if you're going to call them "anecdotes", then remember that the opinions of the people against making the story option are just as anecdotal (and outnumbered).

And besides, WE asked first: prove that making the story optional will somehow hurt the game.

I KNOW it would be good for the game because I have at least two friends who have quit because they just don't enjoy FFXIV's story and couldn't put up with the hours of tedium necessary to get to endgame where the FUN is.

Even when we've DEMANDED that you people explain how making the story optional will hurt the game, EVERY SINGLE TIME, the reply is something along the lines of "The story is fun, therefore everyone should have to do it!"

Do you not UNDERSTAND that what you like, others may not? Do you not grasp the concept that more people playing FFXIV is better for YOU because it increases Yoshi-P's development budget?

Do you not understand that making the story option won't have even the tiniest bit of an effect on YOUR gameplay experience?!

A person liking something is not grounds for them to force other people to do it...