Defensive ability, WAR VS DRK

[Reynhart]

You guys do the most damage while tanking, and there is a cost for that and its called mitigation. Certainly they can buff you but I doubt you will ever touch war mitigation (let alone paladin). If you did you would need a damage nerf.

Problem is, we haven't seen any solid numbers proving this. In fact, in these threads, it's still the "WAR is the most brutal" everywhere

[Xariann]

@Reynhart - Just follow my entire line of thought in the post (now edited with the skills I forgot to account for). I guess I am bias because I have written it, but if you look at it the way I have done it makes sense. When you look at the calculations, DRK falls behind in tanking physical damage and it is about on par with WAR in tanking magic damage.

[Reynhart]

WAR can self heal for 7k+ in 2 seconds

Every 60 seconds

Thrill of Battle for max HP increase + heal of that amount (3k+ at 60)

Every 120 seconds, again

Second Wind as cross class for 1k+

Every 120 seconds, once more

I'm not even taking into acount double inner beasts, which heal for 1k+ each... over 3k total heal with berserk+bloodbath...

Berserk, every 90 seconds, bloobath every 90 seconds. Do you see a pattern here ?
And Infuriate, every 60 seconds, which will also make you overlap the damage mitigation of Inner Beast, proving that, in your quest to get big numbers, you throw away how to properly manage your skills.

EDIT : Ok, I'm foolish. Now, I'm starting to see the BIG picture.

You're in the last turn of savage Alexander
Both healers are dead and your party is exhausted from the struggle
The beast has only few HP left...survive the next 15 seconds and the victory is yours
Beware, the big tankbuster is coming, the one that makes every tank shudder in fear
But not you ! You're ready to take it !
Just before the hit, you activate Holmgang and survive with one HP
Your remembered to save your wrath for this moment, so, after unleashing Berserk and Bloodbath, you strike your first Inner Beast
Right after that, you gather all your fury, and strike a second time ! You could almost hear your Inner Beast howling
Now that your rage is almost quenched, you let yourself in the Thrill Of Battle, but not without catching your breath with a Second Wind, while still keeping your Equilibrium
You did it ! The beast is dead ! Your fast and cunning reflexes gave time for your last DPS to unleash its devastating Limit Break !
You saved the day, you're a hero worthy of praises, and people will make songs about you
Congratulations

Nooow, from a PLD
Big hit is coming, pop Hallowed Ground, Limit Break, boss dead

I'll admit any day that this is far less epic, but we're talking about mitigation here, not epicness

[Faytte]

burst healing of a significant value is more valuable (by leagues) in raiding over small values that come up more often. I will tell you right now---the 400 potency heal of soul eater will mean nothing in raiding--when a buster hits you for nearly all of your health, and the next auto attack may kill you the 400 potency heal (which you need to be ready to land right in that window) isnt going to save you.

Smaller heals (blood bath, IB, soul eater) mostly get over written by healers--healers are not going to take into account your paltry self heal when they line up what to land on you.

Inner Beast is shadow skin whenever you want---thats why its great.
Thrill of Battle/equilibrium can make up for bad luck in a fight, either by pushing your health instantly over what might kill you (or recovering before the next mechanic/attack will kill you).
Periodic healing (which is what soul eater, blood bath are) are largely irrelevant outside of dungeons.

[Faytte]

You're in the last turn of savage Alexander
...
...
You saved the day, you're a hero worthy of praises, and people will make songs about you
Congratulations

Basically. Thrill and Equilibrium are 'BURST SURVIVABILITY' which counter 'BURST DAMAGE'. Things like soul eater are sustained survivability which counter sustained damage (generally, dungeons).

Hopefully that helps :P

[Hundred]

Drks value is Dark Mind and Deliriums -Int when you don't have a monk. That and Dark Dance's shorter cooldown to something like Bulwark.
Not that it really matters for heavensward current dungeons, all ezpz lemon squeeze and you'll clear regardless, but basically unless Alexander is something with a fair amount of Magical dmg output to put Dark Mind to use, you'd just take a PLD.

[Faytte]

Dark Dance compared to Bulwark is ...painful to hear.

It being up more often almost never matters. Its 30% for 20% reduction. The bulwarks 60% ontop of base block rates is damn near 100% and shields can get over 30% block reduction even with the starting shields at level 60. Thats why bulwark has a much larger cd---cause its ...good.

Dark Dance is a 'maybe' shadow skin, if its parriable, if parry happens.

[Reynhart]

Things like soul eater are sustained survivability which counter sustained damage (generally, dungeons).

We're not talking about healing from Soul Eater, but healing from Clemency.

As seen in this video a high level PLD can heal more than 5k on a WAR without convalescence.
So, with traited Convalescence, it can heal itself even more. Basically getting back to full life in 6 seconds.

[Ditto]

Dark Dance is NOTHING like Bulwark. Hell it doesn't even compare to Rampart really, because Dark Dance is RNG, Rampart is constant reduction throughout it's duration. (We all know you're not going to dodge a tank buster so c'mon now)

And as far as Drk vs. War DPS, War pulls ahead as Main Tank still.

Not entirely sure in an OT situation, I myself have reached 600 DPS without Grit while MT even, but that only lasts until I run out of TP, which is incredibly quickly when you're using Blood Weapon. With War offensive buffs (Their better OT utility aside), and their new way to restore their TP (Which a Drk has absolutely no way to), I'm fairly sure Warrior will pull much further ahead in the long run.

As is, Drk offense is 1 big burst until you run out of TP. A burst that a Warrior can likely do better simple due to their own damage buffs, while still maintaining DPS outside of the burst without having to sit on their butt waiting for their TP to regen for as long as a Drk does.

[Faytte]

We're not talking about healing from Soul Eater, but healing from Clemency.

As seen in this video a high level PLD can heal more than 5k on a WAR without convalescence.
So, with traited Convalescence, it can heal itself even more. Basically getting back to full life in 6 seconds.

Yeah Clemency is fantastic. It really expands the role of a Paladin as both MT and OT. Save a healer, save a dps, save the tank or save yourself.