Game population by the numbers.

[Maxwell]

Regarding the console market
In my opinion, large big brand MMORPGs should stay away from the console market. By its nature, a MMORPG is supposed to evolve over time with content and technology, something consoles cant do very well. To MMORPGs, consoles are basically a set of additional physical restrictions. Not only that but some may bring an additional layer of fees (xbox live / PSN+)

Regarding the numbers !
I couldn't care less about the numbers. If i like the game and people are available to play with when i'm logged in, then all is fine ! If the number of subscriber is so important to you, go play WoW. The number of active account can indeed be a metric to measure the health of a MMORPG, but its not a deterministic metric nor the one and only. It must also be noted
that the competition in the MMORPG market is more or less a zero-sum situation. The majority of player don't play more than 1 mmo at a time due to monetary and time constraints.

A lot of people didn't make the switch from XI to XIV not because of the lower quality of the game, but simply because they didn't feel like working on another MMO. Those people stayed in FFXI because they found their comfort zone and don't want to start again. Leaving less potential accounts for XIV, but not tied to XIV's health.

[Punxsutawney]

Attack you? I never attacked anyone.. it's not in my nature to attack individuals on a forum. I only care about the truth and hard facts. And you are basing your facts off of videos that the publisher wants you to see, and the stuff they feed you on the internet. No one knows what GW2 will be like, so there is no need to jump to conclusions on the quality of the game. It may be good it may bomb, only time will tell.

[Abriael]

Regarding the console market
In my opinion, large big brand MMORPGs should stay away from the console market. By its nature, a MMORPG is supposed to evolve over time with content and technology, something consoles cant do very well. To MMORPGs, consoles are basically a set of additional physical restrictions. Not only that but some may bring an additional layer of fees (xbox live / PSN+)

The xbox live fees (alongside the closed servers) are exactly the reason why there won't be a Xbox 360 version of this game. As for PSN+ Sony has stated multiple times that PSN+ will never involve exclusive access to full games. So that's not a realistic scenario. On the contrary, it's very possible that PSN+ users may receive discounts on their MMORPG fees.

The MMORPG market is stagnant one, so mmorpg developers need to go out and look for additional, untapped markets in order to get out of the stagnating area. And yeah, consoles are the first and foremost of those markets.

[Shelia]

Are you perchance saying that the warhammer online and age of conan devs didn't do whatever they could to pull off the best product they could?

Yes, I am. lol
I played AoC on the day it launched... and it was awful. Completely full of bugs. Almost every NPC glitches, I fell through the floor several times, and occasionally there would be a glitch with things like looting. The game was far from polished, and there's no excuse for releasing a game that was so blatantly bug-ridden. Warhammer didn't have any obvious bugs to speak of... but the content definitely wasn't there.

Both developers delayed the released of their games multiple times (two for WAR, Three for AoC), and put all their resources into both games.
Both development teams were composed by extremely passionate individuals and very talented artist/programmers/directors and all. There's no reason to believe that they are in any way inferior to ArenaNet.

Dude, just because launches were delayed doesn't mean they were spending that time developing. =\
If you played either game at release, you'd know what I was talking about. Age of Conan was definitely rushed.. the amount of bugs I witnessed within my first day of playing was atrocious. Warhammer just had the misfortune of lacking basic content and things it said it would have, and being overshadowed by other games (much like XIV).

Past games and talent isn't all that's necessary to release a successful game, the factors that come into play are extremely complex, and publishers ARE a factor (EA influenced the release of warhammer online quite badly).

Yes, but you also fail to realize EA pretty much chokes every series to death... lol
They tend to have much more of a vice-grip on their products than most publishers do.

I never mentioned past games/talent as being a factor, either (although it might help in the development process). I just stated that I think ArenaNet is doing the right thing by pacing themselves with their product.

[Abriael]

Yes, I am. lol
I played AoC on the day it launched... and it was awful. Completely full of bugs. Almost every NPC glitches, I fell through the floor several times, and occasionally there would be a glitch with things like looting. The game was far from polished, and there's no excuse for releasing a game that was so blatantly bug-ridden. Warhammer didn't have any obvious bugs to speak of... but the content definitely wasn't there.

The description you make Reminds me a lot of Guild wars 1 at launch (and yes, I played both at launch, because I was hyped about them as much as you are hyped about GW2, and I learned from that error).

Dude, just because launches were delayed doesn't mean they were spending that time developing. =\

And what do you think they were doing? playing wow? secretely watching porn? come on.

If you played either game at release, you'd know what I was talking about. Age of Conan was definitely rushed.. the amount of bugs I witnessed within my first day of playing was atrocious. Warhammer just had the misfortune of lacking basic content and things it said it would have, and being overshadowed by other games (much like XIV).

Rushed games have a lot to do with that danger i told before. Biting more than you can chew. All developers have to draw a line (or even more, publishers draw that line for them) on when a game has to start generating a revenue.
The fact that ArenaNet didn't announce a release date doesn't mean that NCsoft is going to fund them forever. A release will have to come, as the "it's ready when it's ready" is just a nice marketing catchphrase.
The true one is "it'll be ready when the publisher says so".

Developers don't rush game because they want to rush them. They rush games because their "grand plan" included more stuff that they could get accomplished, and/or because the publisher rushed them.

Yes, but you also fail to realize EA pretty much chokes every series to death... lol
They tend to have much more of a vice-grip on their products than most publishers do.

Aside from the fact that EA has released some quality game in the last few years, NCsoft's fame isn't much better. Remember Tabula rasa. Even there NCsoft was just the publisher and Richard Garriot wasn't exactly a newbie of the industry.

[Skeeter]

The fact we're talking about all these other games and not 14 is pretty much all that needs to be said.

[Abriael]

The fact we're talking about all these other games and not 14 is pretty much all that needs to be said.

People going to a forum dedicated to one game to tell how much they're waiting for other games (or how they like other games more) is pretty much a staple of the internet, and it happens on every forum dedicated to any game (including very successful ones like wow).

Some call it trolling.

[Shelia]

The description you make Reminds me a lot of Guild wars 1 at launch.

Which is funny, because I didn't experience any problems with GW1 at launch. Been playing for years. Only problem I ever had was with a couple patches near launch. :>

And what do you think they were doing? playing wow? secretely watching porn? come on.

Obviously they weren't refining their product if release for AoC was so terrible... They we're probably creating marketing ideas for launch or solving large-scale problems like networking.

Rushed games have a lot to do with that danger i told before. Biting more than you can chew. All developers have to draw a line (or even more, publishers draw that line for them) on when a game has to start generating a revenue.
The fact that ArenaNet didn't announce a release date doesn't mean that NCsoft is going to fund them forever. A release will have to come, as the "it's ready when it's ready" is just a nice marketing catchphrase.
The true one is "it'll be ready when the publisher says so".

Again... you fail to recognize ArenaNet as a separate entity from NCsoft. "It's ready when it's ready" may very well be a marketing catchphrase... but if it was, why is that mantra ultimately harming them? In the long-run and short-term it would be easier to toss out a release date to produce even more hype. People have been anticipating this game since it was announced back in 2007/2008, I don't think it does them much good to deny their fans a release date unless they were entirely sure they weren't ready yet.

Developers don't rush game because they want to rush them. They rush games because their "grand plan" included more stuff that they could get accomplished, and/or because the publisher rushed them.

This still isn't an excuse for obvious glitches that should've been covered in alpha. lol

Besides, if we're talking XIV here... SE had more than enough money to continue development for several more months before launch and kept a gigantic disaster from happening.

Aside from the fact that EA has released some quality game in the last few years, NCsoft's fame isn't much better. Remember Tabula rasa. Even there NCsoft was just the publisher and Richard Garriot wasn't exactly a newbie of the industry.

... ArenaNet had absolutely no part in Tabula Rasa whatsoever. Why are you bringing it up? lol

That's like me comparing Kayne and Lynch to XIV. There's pretty much no relation there, aside from the fact that they were both published by the same company.



Anyway, I'm pretty much done debating this... lol

I (almost) feel bad for derailing the OP's thread.

[Neptune]

OP, good job taking the bullet points out of my thread. Haha. My opinion is that FFXIV will one day see 1 million subscribers. I think it will become that good of a game. However, if the FFXI fans get to vote it into FFXI-2, I think it will die a terrible death after SE cancels it after it fails to ever get the original 600k back.

[Shelia]

Oh, and one more thing regarding this:

Aside from the fact that EA has released some quality game in the last few years, NCsoft's fame isn't much better. Remember Tabula rasa. Even there NCsoft was just the publisher and Richard Garriot wasn't exactly a newbie of the industry.

You forget that all of NCsoft's games are developed by NCsoft except City of Heroes and Guild Wars... both of which had decent reception, unlike NCsoft's other titles. I can't explain why/how Richard Gariott failed miserably; he might've been too ambitious with what resources and technology he had at the time.